Zone System...what We Can Learn From Ansel Adams

In non macro photography I use the zone system. It works best/easiest in B/W. With color you also have to extend the zone system to included the dominant primary colors in the scene

You guys are over-complicating it. Adams exposed so that he didn't blow out highlights, then processed to retrieve shadow detail and preserve contrast. He also took advantage of lens flare to bring shadow levels up within the camera system, choosing lenses with different amounts of flare to achieve the goals. This made shadow detail easier to retrieve. All of these things are achievable on global level using simple histogram tools such as those within DPP. Masking requires more sophisticated tools, but are really not advised for coins anyway. I've tried many of the masking techniques that Adams used (and many more) that are available in Lightroom and other tools, but their application tends to make a coin appear un-natural (ie not like it does in-hand). Simpler global levels adjustments preserve the overall "look" of the coin while enhancing global details.

I am dismayed by your selective editing.

In the digital world, the RAW format image is the equivalent of the negative. It is the direct product of exposure of the optical image on the sensor, just as it would be if the sensor were replaced by film.

In the film world, there is some flexibility in film characteristics (more in black and white, less in color), but there is much less flexibility in the digital world. Digital sensors are designed to be as linear as possible for exposure over a wide dynamic range of light levels. Adams' statement about exposing for highlights is his way of saying that with digital, as it is with color film, the photographer has little creative control over the taking process except to ensure the highlights are preserved.

Proper exposure creates what I call "good raw material" that can be used to generate the final image. This is Adams' "musical score".

Post-processing (including the RAW demosaicing process) is the digital equivalent of printing in film. From this perspective, the digital photographer has many, many more tools available than do film photographers. Many digital tools have analogs in film, but some do not (and vice versa). Post-processing gives the digital photographer much flexibility in final image composition and rendering. As long as the raw material / musical score is solid, the photographer (as "performer") can create something beautiful.

Of course for coins, the range of post-processing is limited such that the final image best represents the in-hand look of the coin. Within those parameters, there is a lot of flexibility.

Well, at least you are not editing out something I said, and then complaining that I didn't say it!

I'm not sure what to say about zones on a coin photo. Every zone is, of course, represented.

When you say "exposing for the highlights", I assume you mean exposing the print?

Ray, you have made reference to this ideal in this thread and in several other places, and it appears to serve as a benchmark for the photos you make.

Would you be willing to comment on the model proposed by Gerald Hoberman in The Art of Coins and their Photography, (Spink and Abrams: New York, 1982) in which he observes in his discussion of setting up a shot and its lighting, "The ideal is to produce a photograph which does not require any background treatment." (p.339) and "The object should be to illuminate the coin with maximum visual impact, to reproduce it accurately, and to accentuate its beauty." (p.340)? He continues with additional comments along that line, but never makes reference to the "in the hand" ideal.

I am wondering if he and you are looking at the function of the final image differently; i.e. that he is looking for an "artsy" rendering and you are looking for something that will minimize trouble in the marketplace.

If we allow that the function of coin photos may vary, some to inspire and some to inform, and recognize that these overlap in many ways, is Hoberman's ideal "old school?"

At bottom, what is the prime purpose of the "in the hand" benchmark?

I have not reedited anything of what you have said and Find the accusation highly offensive. I gained the impression you have a completely different understanding of what the zone system is to what I have been taught and applied. I repeat please show us on a coin what you mean. At the moment it still comes across as incredibly wrong. ( A simple picture will serve to avoid further confusion)

To help you to understand what I am asking instead and to avoid any further paranoia on your part here is a( much) reduced image I produced using an adaption of Ansell Zone System. I have added lines to highlight how I broke the picture down in my mind using the zone system... while I was setting up the shot.

It was taken last year and was very rushed as I only had a window of 30 minutes in which to compose and take the shots necessary to produce the image. I used Ansell's (adapted) system to ensure I captured the sunlight hitting the buildings while maintaining the sky and foreground in the "depressing grey" of that day. Those zones, for once, matched the composition I was trying for. Final print is 40 X 15 inches. It was created from a stitch of three shifted shots. It took multiple attempts to get the right set of three. I have to add that I was I was worn out by the time the light had gone ( but very happy as I was sure I had got what I wanted)

For me there is no need to use the Ansell system for coins....For the simple reason its heaps easier just to adjust the lighting so the coin is illuminated the way you want it to be.





Same image without the lines ..please note the image is copyrighted

Here's what I said, with the part you selectively edited in italics:

"Adams exposed so that he didn't blow out highlights, then processed to retrieve shadow detail and preserve contrast"

You quoted only the part about taking, leaving out the part about processing, which is perfectly fine, but you then complained I was only recommending using the part about taking.

Are we good now?




I really was just referring to the single statement, which of course is not the entire scope of the Zone System, just a small part that I thought was interesting and could be applied to the way I do coin photography and recommend to others.