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Is This One Bit From An 8 Real Spanish Coin?

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Lynneol's Avatar
United States
5 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  3:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Lynneol to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My dad loved Errol Flynn movies and bought a few "pirate" coins. I recently found this in his coin collection. Could it be from an 8 real coin?

Is-This-One-Bit-From-An-8-Real-Spanish-Coin?

Is-This-One-Bit-From-An-8-Real-Spanish-Coin?
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oriole's Avatar
Canada
5239 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot see any detail on it at all. Is it silver-or lead? Could you give us the size?
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Lynneol's Avatar
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 Posted 09/10/2016  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lynneol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm posting another picture of the piece of coin next to a reproduction of an 8 real cut into 8 pieces for size purposes. The fake coin is an accurate representation of the size of a Spanish 8 real. The old coin piece I have and one bit of the reproduction are almost identical in size.

The piece of coin I have is so crusted I don't know how to tell what type of metal it is. I doesn't seem to be as heavy as lead. It is weighted the same as the reproduction one bit piece.


Is-This-One-Bit-From-An-8-Real-Spanish-Coin?
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Spence's Avatar
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34402 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2016  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@lynneol, first welcome to CCF. Second, we are facing the exact same issue that you are: a wedge-shaped hunk of metal that is the right size and shape to be authentic, but no information about the specific metal alloy or details visible on the obverse or reverse. Could your piece be real? Sure, maybe, but I bet if you took one of those shiny pieces of the replica and tarnished to the point that no details were visible, it would look exactly the same as your other piece.

So what can be done? Well, first off, I strongly recommend against cleaning your piece to bring up the details. You could get a laboratory test (called x-ray fluorescence or XRF) done to confirm that the piece is not only primarily silver, but also that all the correct trace elements are in there too. You could also submit this to a third party grading company for conservation and authentication. More info on both of these routes is easily found here on CCF with judicial use of the search function.

Finally, I'm going to recommend to the mods that your post is moved over to the world coin section. There are a couple folks over there who know a whole lot more about this genre than I do.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Lynneol's Avatar
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 Posted 09/10/2016  8:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lynneol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much for your help. My dad must have gotten this piece back in the early 1970's. I don't know if that information helps identify what it could be. Unfortunately my dad recently passed away so I can't ask him about it.
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jgenn's Avatar
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1156 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2016  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
, Lynneol

First, does it stick to a magnet? (a real bit from an 8 reales will not stick to a magnet)

Next, get an accurate weight. An eight reales weighs about 27 grams. 27/8 = 3.375g so your bit has to be close to this value.

Then, you need to determine the specific gravity. A genuine bit from an 8 reales will have a specific gravity of 10.3 for the proper silver/copper alloy.

An XRF analysis that include a measurement of trace gold would be the last test to apply if all previous ones passed, but it is likely to be prohibitively expensive.
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Lynneol's Avatar
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 Posted 09/12/2016  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lynneol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The piece does not stick to a magnet. The weight is 2.51g. Would the color and deposits on it be from salt water?
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jgenn's Avatar
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 Posted 09/12/2016  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion, 2.51g is too light to possibly be genuine. That being said, it doesn't really matter what was done to make it look old. Enjoy it as a replica like your other reproduction.
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 Posted 09/13/2016  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have something similar. What happened is that some guy got a bunch of sea salvaged super corroded 8Rs and cut them to bits, pun intended. Then they were further toned. If the cut edge is rather sharp, your coin is one of these, if not who knows.
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2016  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can't even tell what it is and the weight is dubious for a real bit. Polish it up and put it in your pocket. Enjoy it!

After you've enjoyed it for a while buy a real one to look at but not to play with.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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 Posted 09/15/2016  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have something similar. What happened is that some guy got a bunch of sea salvaged super corroded 8Rs and cut them to bits, pun intended. Then they were further toned.

Apparently, this was done by a handler of material from the Hollandia wreck in the 1970s. They had piles of pillar 8R (and many from this wreck were rather significantly corroded) - was another way to market some of the excess material... In that case, they probably didn't have to retone them much as most Hollandia material was deeply toned black as found.


Quote:
If the cut edge is rather sharp, your coin is one of these, if not who knows.

Maybe... but keep in mind, if a piece was cut and then dropped/sank shortly after, that edge may still be sharp. Such is the cobs sometimes as well.
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 Posted 09/15/2016  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
RE: weight... The thing is half-eaten, of course it's going to be underweight!!

Note that I'm not saying the piece is or is not a cut "bit" - though the size/shape is correct for an eight-cut of an 8R. There simply is no discernible detail visible through the encrustation.
Edited by realeswatcher
09/15/2016 3:41 pm
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Lynneol's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2016  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lynneol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The edges are beveled which I thought was strange. I don't know what they used to cut 8 real coins but I wouldn't think the edge would be on such a slant.
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Pillar of the Community
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1962 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2023  6:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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