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 Replies: 335 / Views: 33,218 |
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Moderator
 United States
189502 Posts |
My not caring for the Carr pieces does not change the fact that they are collectable and their value is going up.
We can all agree on that, right?
So what happens when another party starts making these fantasy over-strikes, same methods, same quality?
Will they have the same value? How will you tell them apart? You cannot rely on packaging, COAs, and other materials on the secondary market. What then?
I am genuinely curious how this will be handled because you know it is going to happen, especially as the value escalates.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5251 Posts |
I have a question about these items which has nothing to do with whether they have any collecting merit or not.
Aside from the date, do the designs have any discernible difference from the original Morgan host coins? In other words, if you took an original Morgan and a DC version and effaced the date on each, could you tell which was the original and which was the DC version?
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
My not caring for the Carr pieces does not change the fact that they are collectable and their value is going up.
We can all agree on that, right?  Beanie Babies and cabbage patch dolls were also collectable at one stage as well. All I know is that this Danial Carr episode is going to end up in tears eventually. We have many novice collectors that visit this site and I am a little disappointment with the senior/experienced members here that are actively promoting these. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts |
Having collected coins and exonumia for over sixty years now, I've yet to ever make a purchase from the U.S. Mint. I've seen many collectors get burned on such purchases when they decided to unload those mint issues. Regardless, I know that they enjoyed the ownership for a time. That said, I just made myself an early Christmas present of Carr's 1964-D Morgan issue. It appears that they're selling out fast. Might this have something to do with the recent announcement of the U.S. Mint's 1964 Morgan dollar dies? |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
As the dies for a 1964 Morgan dollar were actually produced by the US Mint in 1963 Wouldn't that make the Carr offering counterfeits and not fantasy coins.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7390 Posts |
Nope. No working dies were found, no coins were struck. They only got as far as the producing hubs, galvonos & master dies for a possible Philly issue
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10044 Posts |
Quote:As the dies for a 1964 Morgan dollar were actually produced by the US Mint in 1963 Wouldn't that make the Carr offering counterfeits and not fantasy coins. Interesting question. I know he made the 1964 Peace dollars which the mint did produce, but officially the mint says they destroyed all of them. So Daniel's are replicas of something the mint destroyed all examples of. I think the mint's own word is why Daniel's were not deemed as being counterfeits by the powers that be. I know I once talked Daniel asking if he was going to ever make a 1959 Wheat cent. He said since there is an actual 1959 wheat known that cannot be proven as a fake, he will not do it. I do not doubt Daniel has spent a goodly amount of time determining what is, and what is not legal. Quote:
So what happens when another party starts making these fantasy over-strikes, same methods, same quality? I note someone is already trying on ebay. But they mark theirs with the word copy on them. And the quality is not near as good (only stating this from looking at the pics). They are not selling for near the price either. And although someone else may eventually try to make these, one of the things that will be hard for them to do is get an actual mint press to make them with. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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But they mark theirs with the word copy on them Which is what Mr Carr should be doing, At least someone is doing the "Right" thing here  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Guys, the Proof-Like Morgan just became available for only $135! Better get em while you can  |
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Moderator
United States
189502 Posts |
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Nope. No working dies were found, no coins were struck. They only got as far as the producing hubs, galvonos & master dies for a possible Philly issue Yup. for those who have not seen it this yet, there is a good video here... http://goccf.com/t/275328 |
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Moderator
United States
189502 Posts |
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And although someone else may eventually try to make these, one of the things that will be hard for them to do is get an actual mint press to make them with. The US is not the only country that mints coins and our presses are really no different than any other in the developed world. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10044 Posts |
Behind the idea of my statement was that, to me, the history of Daniel's press in actually being a tool that made some of the US coinage adds an intangible degree of interest. It may be that some of the coins in my collection were made using that press. Its just fun for me to think that its possible a specific coin was produced from a blank put into this press; was sent out and "experienced" circulation as specie (if it could only tell its stories!); and was returned to the press to get a total makeover that now elevates it (to some people  ) from commoner's status to a very valued (to some part of a coin collection. I know... our friend Trout sees it as just the opposite - the coin went from commoner to pariah -- which is OK also Nonetheless, I still think its kind of neat the press being used has some history in US coinage. Any other overstrikes would not, somehow, be as as "special" to me - unless maybe an old P, S, O, or CC press was used. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Moderator
United States
189502 Posts |
Quote:Behind the idea of my statement was that, to me, the history of Daniel's press in actually being a tool that made some of the US coinage adds an intangible degree of interest... Certainly. I agree that is a big part of the value the collectors give it. However, that value rests in knowing you have a Carr piece. When it sits along side one from another vendor that is indistinguishable, then we have a problem, especially over time if the documentation and provenance are lost. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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And although someone else may eventually try to make these, one of the things that will be hard for them to do is get an actual mint press to make them with. The technology involved in making a minting press is NOT Rocket science and any capable machine shop should be able to produce one if they wanted to. Quote:
So what happens when another party starts making these fantasy over-strikes, same methods, same quality?
Will they have the same value? How will you tell them apart? You cannot rely on packaging, COAs, and other materials on the secondary market. What then?
I am genuinely curious how this will be handled because you know it is going to happen, especially as the value escalates. As the Carr offering are deemed NOT to be illegal then ANY other offering regardless of who produced it should hold the same status. Also as there appears to be no copyright issues with the Carr fantasies then there wouldn't be that problem for any other producer either. These Daniel Carr offerings are just the tip of the iceberg and by condoning these it will open a floodgate of others. It is pretty naïve to expect anything different. Edited by trout1105
12/08/2016 4:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
If the creator is a US citizen and overstrikes fantasy dates using authentic US coinage as planchets then sure, they have just as much legal right as Dan does. The Chinese for instance hold no legal right to use the designs as they are not US citizens. But who and how would they be punished. |
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Replies: 335 / Views: 33,218 |
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Posted 12/05/2016 7:12 pm
