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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,251 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3444 Posts |
Recently I won a few interesting pieces from a seller I have had great results dealing with .....  A Spanish Tiberius AE being the one I wanted the most. As is my habit I washed the old boy off with some solvent. (I have hidden the backrounds so as to afford the seller some small measure of anonymity)   Note the reverse at 3-6 o'clock  What appears to be blue/black ink had been applied to the surfaces   Not only the ink came off but the "desert" like patina washed away like magic !  What I found was some bare metal and some remaining bits of bronze disease spread over this small area.  I should have documented this better but my initial distress clouded my judgement somewhat. After cooling off a few degrees (Celsius) I decided that the disease had not spread too far and that the bare metal could (possibly) be toned down with an application of some sulphur. I want to keep the darn coin despite everything (rather like the portrait) so I went ahead and did the 30 minute "chemo" to cure the cancer. 99% cured .......    But once again this shows how aware a collector must be when dealing with antiquities. In this case I will give a tip of the hat to the charlatan who doctored this one ! A real first class job and some time and effort too. The 'artiste' appears to have been unaware that the disease is often treatable and instead opted to wire brush away as much as possible before painting over it with some dye (a Sharpy maybe ?)and then going ye olde instant "desert patina" route over the coloring. I messaged the seller this morning and assured him I would keep the coin. No reply as of yet ...... But I expect better in the future and may insist that he wash them in acetone first !! |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Ouch!, but at least the damage to the coin isn't too bad. Did you let the seller know your disappointment?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
Quite a nice looking coin there, FR.
We are certainly seeing a lot of cosmetic work done to coins these days. Fraudulent, deceptive practices on the parts of the dealers who disrespect the coins and their customers so much that they are willing to do this stuff.
I guess it's not so much the cosmetic work that's been proliferating (it's probably been around for a long time), but rather it's the number of collectors who are now hip to the practice. Irritates me, FR, that if you had not been in the habit of using the solvent, you would never have known of the potentially-spreading BD. The dealer didn't seem to care about this, as long as he completed the deal with you. (I should probably acknowledge, however, that the "work" on the coin could have preceded his acquisition of it - before it became part of his inventory)
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3444 Posts |
I have had no reply ..... so far !
As the other coins I have purchased from him/her have all been of excellent quality for now I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt and I believe the coins are being sold "as is" without any
cosmetic work.
But as the prices have reached 3 and 4 digits for quality ancients there is always the temptation by some to improve the product.
Some of it is tolerable ! I myself have darkened bronze coins which were overcleaned.
Green spots can be removed, oxidation smoothed or other minor corrections to improve a surface made.
But painting on patina with inks and or actual paint !!
When the intent is to deceive it is borderline criminal.
This crosses the line
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Moderator
United States
34441 Posts |
@FR, I understand that you are not looking to divulge the name of the seller, but I wonder if you would share whether that dealer is on vcoins. As Bob alluded to, there have been a few dealers there "improving" their stock. If this dealer is also there, then I wonder if we need to start being a little more circumspect with our referrals.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3444 Posts |
As far as I know there is no association with the "Vcoins" brand.
But as stated I have bought several excellent coins from this seller.
(which in fairness I will post over the weekend)
Hopefully I will get some sort of response soon.
I will patiently wait until next week before I divulge more.
I am sure that some (European) members here recognize the coin and could provide commentary if they so desire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I like the looks of the coin after your treatment better. Hopefully that makes you feel better.
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
629 Posts |
A good segobriga is always very expensive...
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1194 Posts |
A coin may be expensive , if it is a honnest coin without improving process . Reading this a second time in a few weeks , I am going suspicious .If you choose buying your coins from a well know dealer , you pay also for the security .I suppose it is also possible to do so with silver coins ? I become anxious. albert
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Hi FVRIVS RVFVS... Quote:
I like the looks of the coin after your treatment better. I agree with TypeCoin971793 Lovely olive green patina  Just wondering if the seller is from here in Spain? If so ,I've bought from him before with no problems,just sometimes a bit expensive. Saludos Paul |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3444 Posts |
Yes as mentioned above I will keep the coin despite being somewhat disappointed with the cleaning process.
Yes it is a dealer from Spain (Juan Jose) and I did get a response along with his sincere apologies. He stated that he had no idea that the coin had been "improved" and further identified the auction house that he had purchased the coin from. I think he is being quite honest about this and as I also had no suspicions either believe he is an honest dealer.
As part of my normal cleaning routine I first use either acetone or another 36 letter long solvent to remove any oils or other 'dirt' on the coin.
I was really shocked when the Qtip turned black in just a few seconds.
I have purchased several other coins from him and have been very pleased with all until now. Some very nice early Spanish bronzes as well as a Caligula and this Tiberius (both Segobriga)
I even purchased 2 Roman Republican denari !
I will continue to follow his listings and hopefully this will be forgotten.
He seems to me to be an excellent seller overall
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3444 Posts |
And yes Albert we all have good reason to be suspicious these days.
Technology has progressed that I expect it to become harder and harder to detect fraud.
I also suspect that sooner or later some intrepid collector will crack open a slabbed coin only to find he has purchased a hologram !
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
2752 Posts |
Quote:
He seems to me to be an excellent seller overall  Quote:
I also suspect that sooner or later some intrepid collector will crack open a slabbed coin only to find he has purchased a hologram !  |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,251 |
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Posted 02/24/2017 4:05 pm
