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 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,707 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Thoughts on this pair?   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
The one on the left looks modern rather than a contemporary circulating piece to me. Not too sure about the one on the right based on the photos alone.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Well, the 1842 Zs looks a lot like several catalogued by Riddell, although I wouldn't call it as an exact match to any of those. Counterfeiting of Zacatecas issues during this period was rife. The eagle's puny wings serve as a marker for many of these.
I don't think you'd necessarily visually pick up on the 1878 Pi as bogus unless you were comparing it side by side with a genuine specimen. The style of the snake's head does appear to be wrong.
I'd be interested in the weight, specific gravity, and a peek at the edge for each.
Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Here are the edges:   Both weigh in at 27.1 Grams |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
1842 - yes, a known contemporary style. 1842 is a very commonly seen date, many varieties, including (as Bob has noted) some die mulings with other years/reverses. Search 1842 ZACATECAS CONTEMPORARY in previous posts for some examples & discussion.
1878 - Has the right look (detail, curious-looking uneven strike) for Pi mint of that immediate time frame... BUT the appearance of the alloy/patina appear to tell the story.
Keep in mind, for these later date 8R... the technology was getting better. You still see some crude self-engraved die copies... even some copper casts with not-very-good silvering (similar to all those 1860's date 1R & 2R minors typically bearing Go mintmark)... BUT you also can get better-executed counterfeits such as this (apparently transfer-die).
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Valued Member
United States
426 Posts |
Weights would be really helpful on both but if I had to make a bet, I would say the 1878 Pi is legit as nothing jumps out at me as being out of the ordinary, as for the 1842 Zs 8 Reales it appears to be the rare die style of 1825-1842 with the skinnier eagles wing.
Just from observation I vote legit on both taking into account stamp, edge, size next to each other (1842 Zs were smaller in diameter than the later date 8R's)and die style on the 1842. If they were mine, I would also weigh, ring them, SG and even stick a magnet on them just for the heck of it.
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Valued Member
United States
426 Posts |
Hey another big clue as to the authenticity of the 1842 Zs (die style 1825-1842) is that this was the last one to be minted in the medal axis as opposed to the later coin axis. Let us know!
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
Quote:
Hey another big clue as to the authenticity of the 1842 Zs (die style 1825-1842) is that this was the last one to be minted in the medal axis as opposed to the later coin axis. I don't think so. I have a 1842 Zs and a 1843 Zs pieces, both are in coin alignment. |
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Valued Member
United States
426 Posts |
jdmernSorry, I see that you did post the weight as being 27.1 on both which is right on with what it should be. Quote:
I don't think so. I have a 1842 Zs and a 1843 Zs pieces, both are in coin alignment. Hello! wonghinghiIt sounds like you have a 1842 with the 1842-1845 die style also known as a Type II which I have myself as well. On my previous post I am referring to the Type I 1825-1845 Die Style when I say the last in Medal Axis which is rare and that is what appears to be the OP's coin. If you do have a Type I in coin axis that would be a very exciting find!
Edited by RealPeso
04/28/2017 10:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
The 1842 is, UNQUESTIONABLY, a contemporary counterfeit!!
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
@RealPeso,
I am a bit confused! I have no idea about what is type I or II die style.
For me, all of the Spanish Mexican Portrait 8R are in medal alignment, right?
It the above statement is right, my 1842 Zs eagle 8R is a reverse, a coin alignment for sure. 1843 Zs is in same alignment as 1842 Zs.
Please clarify for me, thanks. If you are interested in this 1842 Zs, I will show it for you later.
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Valued Member
United States
426 Posts |
realeswatcherQuote:
The 1842 is, UNQUESTIONABLY, a contemporary counterfeit!! You're absolutely correct! Can I change my vote? The right wing where it connects to the eagles body is a dead giveaway of the 1842 being a contemporary counterfeit, that's what happens when I am sipping on drinks and looking at coin forums.  wonghingiFor the Republic of Mexico Cap & Rays 8R's there was a change at the Zacatecas mint in 1842 from medal axis to coin axis and two major die styles are known. The 1825-1842 (Type I Medal Axis) and the 1842-1845 (Type II Coin Axis) Check out this post, it is a perfect example of the Type I in Medal alignment. http://goccf.com/t/103336
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
A lesson to learn! Thank you, RealPeso.
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,707 |
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Posted 04/27/2017 12:01 am
