Help Me Understand Today's Online Auction

I believe if you buy something you pay taxes before the auction fees. If I won a lot for $100 I am paying 15% on the $100, not 15% on the $118.

As for preferential treatment when it comes to auction percent I guess it is possible. However if they had this auction on Icollector they would have to hand over a certain percentage regardless.

The reason why the auctioneer may have been quick closing some lots is probably because humans make mistakes. He was antsy, he didn't think it would garner much interest, he didn't see any paddles in the air etc.

As for getting around taxes I am not sure. Where I live it may not be unheard of for someone to ship a winning bid to Maine to avoid HST and then tucking the coin into a copy of The Book of Mormon to get it across the border. Also silver and gold have no tax.

Harmonica, thanks for the reply.

I'll do my homework and figure out which total the tax is charged on. It would make marginally more sense if it's pre-buyer's fee. Still, the math doesn't seem to work unless there's something else going on.

Interesting trick with the book across the border. I guess there are lots of ways around these things.

But a sale of pure silver isn't taxable anywhere in Canada? Or were you just referring to your province (assuming East Coast judging by your sig). This would go some way to explaining what I saw. I'll check all of this out.

First off, thanks for the nice welcome!

I feel like a real noob. I just assumed that any purchase at auction, whether a lamp or a silver bar, would be taxable. Apparently not the case.



So this is a part of the explanation. AgCoinAu, I absolutely believe that someone like me has to be very careful. I just had to look at the MS grades assigned to some of the coin lots. These weren't in the usual PCGS or ICCS labeled containers. They were just in two pieces of cardboard stapled together with 'MS63' written in hand. Even I could see that they were nowhere near this grade and they didn't attract a bid. This isn't specifically on the auctioneer, although I'm guessing there are some houses that wouldn't sell this as advertised. It does show that there are people out there willing to play a little fast and loose.

The whole auction had a much different feel to it than the flyer I'm looking over for the TOREX auction in a few weeks at the Hyatt in Toronto (obviously that one has a lot of high end stuff). The descriptions in this online auction were very basic. I got way more information just looking the coins up in Charlton. The pictures were okay but not great. It means something that the auctioneer doesn't feel it necessary to put up the info that a noob like me can get in 1 minute. I guess dealers already know and tourists...oh well.

Talonbat, thanks for the input on tax (see above). It's good to know about the JM pours because there was another lot of 20 JM bars that went for a similar amount. The person who opened my eyes to silver stacking (and gave me my first two coins) told me to buy coins as close to spot as possible. I've heard of buying 'bags' of silver (rounds, maybe? Or junk silver?). Going to look into that next. I hope it's possible here in Canada.

I suppose that's true if you're only interested in bullion value and not numismatic value. You're basically buying coins that are either so worn or so common that the metal is the only value. Personally I've never had much interest in that from a collecting standpoint, other than saving anything silver I ever ran into in circulation. But to each their own!

On the 2x2 subject, it's no more "fast and loose" than the basement slabbers. I often disagree with even the reputable TPG opinions. If you can see the coin in hand, or the pictures are multiple and high-res, you can decide for yourself whether the written grade is ridiculous or close. Yes, I wouldn't trust any handwritten "grades" on 2x2s, and when it's ridiculous I tend to avoid them, but I have scored some nice 2x2 coins just because a lot of people do avoid them.

One last time, thanks so much for this warm welcome and for all the info. You guys know that if I wasn't trying to restrain myself, I would post about 20 more questions here!

kbbpll, yes the idea was to start to accumulate bullion and he said that he had done so for many years but he's in the UK. Not sure how that changes things but I assume there's a wider variety of coins made with silver and maybe made later than here.

I'll look up the term '2x2' but if you see this, this refers to a coin in a handmade cardboard sleeve with handwritten details on it, as opposed to an 'official' PCGS/NGC/ICCS slab? And a basement slabber is someone who puts stuff into an official looking package and attempts to make it look like an official TPG job? This scares me - even the idea that something can actually say PCGS on it and look like a PCGS slab but be something else. And yes, in reading about ICCS here in Canada, I have discovered that there's debate about the objectivity of grading, which is no surprise. In fact, I'm a little surprised that they haven't moved to computerized grading for such valuable things but maybe this shows how tough it really is.

Nick~!

Sounds like you are starting to get a handle on the lingo and what you are looking for.
Please feel free to ask more questions if you need to! And yes, there are many silver bars,
rounds and coins that sell for a premium far above spot price because of collectors.

i know the exact auction company, you are referring to. and I can honestly advise you to stay away. the shipping is handled by an outside company and is more expensive than if they mailed it out themselves by canada post. plus a lot of items you think have sold will be listed in their next auctions..plus you can't check sold items for prices after the fact it just says sold.. and then low and behold it is listed again in the next auction..i think when their minimums aren't met they just say sold, instead of saying the reserve wasn't met..buyer be very aware here..