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 Replies: 20 / Views: 3,016 |
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New Member
United States
20 Posts |
Why is there such a range in price when searching based on a single coin and year? Let's take an example....
1986-S 1 oz Proof Silver American Eagle (w/Box & COA)
On one site I see it listed for $72.91 and on another $51.48
Also, I know this coin is not graded and due to that, it's value will be less, but then the question becomes, what exactly would these coins typically be graded at if they were put through the process ? PR65, PR66, or maybe it's hit or miss and some might actually be PR70?
One last item as well. If we were talking about a "set", let's say just from 1986-S to 1992-S, is it really more valuable to have that full sub-set ? ie, I am able to find each of those 7 coins, buying them one at a time for a total of $360, but I saw one site selling that same set for $833! That's about a 130% markup...
Any advice/enlightenment would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance...
Dan
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Welcome to Coin Community, Dan. Keep in mind that the asking price for a coin - in our hobby - doesn't have to bear any relationship to the coin's true value, or what people have paid for the same coin in the past. Many seller's don't let that reality affect their pricing, because many buyers don't either. They will cheerfully pay ludicrous prices for inferior coins, from a lack of knowledge of "worth." As a result, numismatics is pretty lucrative for the morally-impaired seller. PCGS lists a total of 27,432 grading events for 1986-S Proof Silver Eagles. All but two of those achieved the "DCAM" superlative; there is no category at all on their website for non-CAM Proof 1986's. Of that total, 1189 graded as PR68, 20,918 graded as PR69, and there are 4942 in PR70. 98.6% of the total graded. That should give you a relative idea of the "expected" quality of these coins. That $51.48 should easily buy you one of those PR69DCAM's, and $72.91 will buy you one and pay for your gas to go get it and a fast-food dinner on the way home.  And - as you're already thinking - that does not even factor the idea that a "raw" coin should have a bit lesser value. These are bullion coins, meant to be held as bulk precious metal, and frankly it's only hype which makes graded versions interesting on the market at all. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
887 Posts |
Quote:
These are bullion coins, meant to be held as bulk precious metal, and frankly it's only hype which makes graded versions interesting on the market at all. That's how I look at them. They were not produced by the mint as circulating currency, everybody who has one socked it away in some type of protective holder, and almost all should be 69 or 70. But who cares? No they really have any numismatic value? Right now they do, but IMO, they are a chuck of 1 ounce of silver with a pretty design; no different (IMO) then a nicely produced silver round. I think at some point down the road, collectors will realize they are just silver, and stop paying these ridiculous prices. I have about 8 or so of the ASE's, and I haven't (and won't) pay more then $22 for them, and I paid UNDER spot for 3 of them. I think that's enough of a premium for the pretty design. Getting bullion graded is a waste of money in my opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
744 Posts |
The value of anything in this world is only what someone is willing to pay. It really pays to shop around. For example, look on Amazon for anything, and click on more buying options, you will find the same item sometimes with 10 different prices and shipping costs. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12840 Posts |
 to CCF! OP asked about proof ASEs though, not bullion. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
 Collectors have easy picking for a prime example. Most people buy these for the silver value. If it is graded by a trusted third party grader ( TPG) value increases slightly, possibly not even the cost of getting it graded. Great question, Dan. As far as a set value, some buyers are willing to pay for convenience. And questionable reasons, there is one post on CCF http://goccf.com/t/295285 that has someone paying over $500 for a coin coaster! Maybe to help benefit the organization, maybe a GREAT BIG surprise! This is an excellent site to get opinions and discussions, stay tuned. |
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Valued Member
United States
467 Posts |
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Getting bullion graded is a waste of money in my opinion. I do agree that the sheer volume of ASE makes most of them not worthwhile to have graded. Certain bullion like regular ASE, Austria Philharmonic, Maple Leafs, etc. are in general "just" bullion. However, not all bullion is the same. Whether classic coin collectors like to admit or not, bullion has become coin collecting and it's collecting base continues to grow. Demand for world series bullion as a collecting hobby is real, especially for series with changing designs each year. Only demand warrants what is a waste of money. If no one demanded 1914 D Lincoln cents, they would be worth exactly one cent. Nothing about circulating coinage makes it any more or less valuable than certain bullion except perceived value and demand. I have graded bullion, such as Gold Libertads, certain year silver proof Libertads (2002, etc.) that I do not think will ever go down to the value of the metal only. Maybe I am wrong. Again, I completely agree that in general there is no point in getting graded ASE regular issue proofs, unless you just enjoy having them, versus the OGP. But I do think it is not fair to lump all bullion as one great big waste of time and money. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Proof ASE are not bullion coins. That makes zero sense. Raw 1986 proofs go for $43-50. Anything higher is overpriced |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
887 Posts |
I mis-read that the thread was about proofs, and not regular strikes. But, I (and this is just my own opinion, right or wrong) still believe that with the many millions of regular strikes produced, and the 20 million (total, approx number) proofs minted, getting them graded is barely worth the cost. To me, it's sort of like the baseball card phenomenon. In the late 70's/early 80's, it became a fad to collect baseball cards. All of a sudden kids stopped putting them in their bicycle spokes, flipping them, and just plain having fun with them, and they went straight from the pack to a capital holder in hopes it will be worth tons down the road. So what the market had was 99% perfect/near perfect cards, and non of them (bar a few) worth anything. With ASE's, proof or regular, we have every one of them in the 68/69/70 range, and folks think the have something special. I just don't see it, today or tomorrow. Since my last post, I added 15 more ASE's, all bought at under spot. |
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New Member
 United States
20 Posts |
Ok - first let me say THANK YOU! A forum that is read a people respond!! What a novel idea !! lol
So - as for the example a price, as I suspected, it really is the idea of "buyer beware" and if you are crazy enough to pay $75 dollars for something you can buy for $50 elsewhere, you need your eyes examined, and maybe a bit more. This seems to also apply to buying the "sets", or at least sub-set in the example I gave. Convenience
IS nice, I agree, but if to costly not worth it, that's why I do all my own home repair !! lol
As for the "default" grading, again I suspected/hoped for at least a PR69 and also figured that some might actually be PR70, as I hinted to in my initial post. On one particular site, a PR69 DCAM graded coin is actually selling for the same price as the ungraded coin w/Box and COA.
The lowest I've been able to find for a 1986-S through 1992-S Proof w/Box and COA is $51.48 each. If anyone has any suggestions of an online resource that might be selling them a bit cheaper, that would be great. And I've also started buying silver bars in parallel
Thanks again for all your replies !
It's been very helpful, and I plan on sticking to the forum and becoming an active member here.....
Edited by dgubber
08/27/2017 4:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
7234 Posts |
If you are searching ebay you will find prices all over the board. And of course those coin peddlers on TV always ask way more than the coins are worth. |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Dgrubber to the family! Hope you do join in the fun. As stated, it pays to shop around. I do online auctions, at times I see ASE Proofs come up, usually PF68/69. depends on the idiots, er, people bidding if good prices be got. Only reason I have an ASE (business strike) is type set. Skipped proofs, why? I'm like Beefer when it comes to bullion, below melt is wonderful, same for foreign and US silver coins(lesser grades), that's investment. ASEs are a high priced way to purchase what is really a government issued bullion coin, it is highly unlikely that you'll see many of them 10-20 years from now on NGCs weekly chart of US Winners and Losers! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
As you research prices always take the sold prices, rather than the asking prices. Especially as your want list expands, keep a written or typed record of low average and high prices sold for all the items you have an interest in. Since most ASE are traded on ebay, those sold prices help considerably. If you advance to more valuable collector coins (although this does not put ASE collectors in a lower tier) Heritage sold is the easiest and best, with Stacks and Great Collections not far behind. Since ebay sellers list more often at Buy it now or Best offer - as opposed to the traditional auction - you can have ebay email you new items for sale on your want list, greatly reducing your search time. If you have a written estimate of what a good price should be you can often nab a bargain immediately after it becomes available. You decide what you like to collect by the dollars you spend. By the same rights, you are the one to be made happy by those purchases. |
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New Member
United States
20 Posts |
Crazyb0 - I did plan on buying bulk older, lower grade silver coins as well. The whole idea is 2 fold, #1, I love the coins. My father use to collect coins when he was alive so it kind of stuck in me. #2, investment purposes. I know from a pure coin POV, even if buying PR70's across the board, your not necessarily going to make a large return on your investment. Of course it depends on the coin.
I still have an 1878-S 7 tail Morgan that was my dad's, it's no less then VF condition... may be more... not worth that much - but I love the coin...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12840 Posts |
On ebay, what you can expect to pay for a normal, ungraded PROOF Silver Eagle with OGP and COA is about $50. Sellers have to cover their fees. Edited by CelticKnot
08/28/2017 02:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2764 Posts |
Dan, I believe you have got the answer needed from other members. Regarding buying sources, beside ebay and other online website, IF you stick around and meet the minimum posts requirement, you can buy from other members of this forum's Buy/Sell section. I do have some proof ASE listed for sale on the B/S section..... so, stick around and be part of the family. Take care, Bruce |
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Replies: 20 / Views: 3,016 |
Posted 08/27/2017 11:31 am
