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1960 LMC With Interesting-Looking Doubling/Gouging - What Is It?

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tropicalbats's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  10:19 am Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin is seemingly from a mint bag. I found a couple like this from the same batch of coins with all die markers matching so not a one-off kinda thing. Any help in guessing what this is would be appreciated as it looks darn close to a DDO to me. Thanks.


1960-LMC-With-Interesting-Looking-Doubling/Gouging---What-Is-It?
1960-LMC-With-Interesting-Looking-Doubling/Gouging---What-Is-It?
1960-LMC-With-Interesting-Looking-Doubling/Gouging---What-Is-It?
1960-LMC-With-Interesting-Looking-Doubling/Gouging---What-Is-It?
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To even consider this as a DDO, all the letters would need to show a consistent look. In this case thinking the G and D of GOD indicate doubling but the O in between doesn't, wouldn't make sense.
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 Posted 08/29/2017  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nutmeg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think maybe it is not a DD.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's strange. Not sure what it is, but it is very interesting. We'll see what the others think.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to consider it random die gouging for the moment, as they do not appear to faithfully follow the curves and proportions of the feature being "doubled." Doubling in a die should be an exact copy of the doubled feature, and considering the location and offset of these anomalies, it's unlikely any sort of hubbing process could result in them being standalone features anyway.

Sometimes the best way to figure out what it is, is to eliminate what it isn't.

These letters weren't hand-punched into individual dies, and an error of this type in the original Master would have led to thousands, if not millions, of identically-anomalous examples.
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 Posted 08/29/2017  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% w/ SD, it isn't hub doubling either MDD or DDO. It is probable since you have concurrent coins, this was some piece of errant metal causing a gouge/dent in the die which replicated until it was polished out or die was replaced. Interesting to find, but no error.

Unless...you plan on selling on ebay as/such.
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 Posted 08/29/2017  6:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Case is now closed as we determined it's just a good randomly placed Die Gouge. Interesting find, but carries no extra value. Keep it for the grade it's in. :)
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 Posted 08/29/2017  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
E&V, Not sure why you are closing this case, but I think I will ask that it remain open for at least a little longer. I see some very astute comments and thoughts so far and greatly appreciate hearing from those who know a whole lot more than I do about how doubled dies are created and whether something like this could even be created in such a manner. As a non-expert on such things, my thoughts are that it is some type of a die gouge (since it is raised) and that the pairing with a similar type thing by the D is just coincidence and that's that.

That said, the reason I am asking that that I find enough similarity with 1964 DDO-022 that I think it is worth running around the experts for an opinion. Which people are giving and I thank you!

http://varietyvista.com/01b%20LC%20...4PDDO022.htm
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 Posted 08/29/2017  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Because it's already been solved. It is a Die Gouge. Like I said, Die Gouges don't carry any value. Lookup Die Gouge on the internet. Your coin resembles a Die Gouge. Here's what a Die Gouge looks like. All credit goes to Coop for the picture.
1960-LMC-With-Interesting-Looking-Doubling/Gouging---What-Is-It?
Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
08/29/2017 7:39 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perceived value cannot be considered the only appropriate criteria for contemplating a die anomaly. Gouges such as this are "smoking gun" attributes for identifying specific die pairs, and as such are among the most important factors in attributing those issues which have been delineated by variety.

This coin would be a permanent resident in my own collection, for that reason: the ability to make a connection to another coin later. It's not like anyone (or everyone at once ) will ever successfully attribute Lincolns by die pair, but as an example this is a surefire feature to nail down a dateless coin like a Greaser.

And if you have a dateless Greaser which you can positively date, you're gonna get a premium for that coin.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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CoinCents's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been going back and forth on your post all day.

I was first considering a possible die clash - then ruled that out. Then looked into a die dent - just don't know.

With the curve on that mark that is by the G is really tough to figure out.



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 Posted 08/29/2017  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with SsuperDdave in that I'd hold onto them as reference coins for now. My first thought was a die gouge, die dent or tooling marks. That would show on multiple strikes.

Did some research to help suggest or eliminate potential DD. Can find nothing previously known to substantiate this. Also checked into a potential clash and counter clash, but nothing lines up as of yet. Thanks, Doug.
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CoinCents's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2017  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TB did you try to do an image overlay of the G to the anomaly to see if matches up with angle?
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 Posted 08/29/2017  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, I haven't done any overlays, as it sorta seemed like the offset distance between the two spots was about the same. If I get a chance later I will see about doing that just to see what happens as why not.
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 Posted 08/29/2017  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Break out the 3D glasses! I really don't know how to correctly offset an overlay in such a case, but a bit of experimenting showed that Photoshop found the shape of the gouge to be a good enough fit for the G that when I moved the opaque layer over the gouge Photoshop recognized the fit and snapped the G into the gouge spot. Not that that means a great deal but it was cool to see the fit. Otherwise a straight horizontal slide didn't seem just right, so this is what things look like with the "doubling" layer rotated exactly 3 degree clockwise. I'm going to need a Dramamine after this bit of photoshop work!
1960-LMC-With-Interesting-Looking-Doubling/Gouging---What-Is-It?
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