How Knowledge Of Coin Striking Pays Off In The Long Run!

Strike is always a consideration in the final eye appeal and value of a coin, although it does not influence technical numerical grade, as you have pointed out.

@Old Reb, first welcome to CCF. Second, I would echo's @swamperbob's sentiment that we would love to see pics of some of your coins here. This isn't my area of expertise, but I still appreciate seeing these great coins!

You make a valid point that, in my opinion, is not clearly discussed enough here. I don't know about world coin strikes but, we all know about the Peace dollar. I have to add the Jefferson nickel to the list of strike-contingent series.

xlrcable Details near the edge of a coin struck in a close rather than closed collar press are often dependent on two simple factors - finishing of the die face (camber or lack of same) and of course the way the planchet was upset before striking. Strikes on flat planchets rarely show edge detail.

The Mexican centavos are such crude dies and they were struck on poor planchets so it may be a combination of both. More time was obviously taken on the higher denomination coins.

Understanding the strike was always critical to determining the true rarity and value of a coin when I was learning about collecting Mexican 8 Reales of the first republic. Take for instance the weakly struck up coins from Zacatecas that display MS fields and absolutely no wear. The TPGs will usually grade them as MS - which is a major error in my opinion because a mint like Zacatecas turned out literally thousands of those compared with each fully struck up coin.

Completeness of strike in some series is far superior to wear in terms of rarity and value. That is why I prefer a well struck up coin in AU to any poor looking MS coin missing the complete snake with hideous toning. The Sheldon scale simply is a poor guide for Mexican 8Rs and should be abandoned in favor of the old school method that combined eye appeal, wear and strike as the most critical criteria.

People who pay inflated values for ugly, poorly struck MS 8Rs from the second republic have been played by a marketing system and will ultimately come up loseers when the bubble breaks.

realswatcher A poorly struck MS coin may be "Uncirculated" by definition, but if you know the 8R series - full strikes are far rarer. Try to actually sell an 1835 Zs OM in MS 60 and see what you are offered by any dealer who understands the series. You will get offers that are closer to melt than book. The 1835 Zs is the high point of the awful Zacatecas strikes. Conversely any nice looking full strike is very rarely encountered. I personally pay more for a beautiful, fully struck coin in AU than for any MS 60 copy of the same date. They are mostly hideous. Of course I see MS 60 weak coins as a VERY poor investment - many of which are only MS 60 due to grade-flation.

This debate will favor your interpretation UNTIL investor buyers start to run out of funds or wise up. In this category I place your category of "certain collectors". I refer to them as investors who buy with no actual knowledge of what a genuine collectable coin really is. I see the bubble driven by low MS grades as similar to the run up in price of Commemorative US 50 cent coins only to be followed by a precipitous drop which caught many people holding coins that grade under MS 64 and were worth only 50% of what they paid a few years before. Again grade-flation and "investor" collectors contributed greatly to the problem.

realeswatcher Not to be disagreeable but I have seen numerous AU coins with clear wear graded MS and some with clear grafitti that have been assigned a grade. These coins do not come via smaller dealers but seem to appear in many larger auctions submitted by the "big dealers".

We all know (collectors involved since the 1960s in particular) that grades on older coins have gone up. What was an AU 30 years ago now passes as MS? Definition of "ABSOLUTELY NO WEAR" is at best selectively enforced by the TPGs. They simply grade differently for their best customers. It has reached an absolutely foolish level. That is gradeflation.

Mike Fazarri has been a grader about as long as I have been a collector of counterfeit coins and he gave an opinion that I believe is extremely accurate in this regard.

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis...icleId=11854

Dave Bower's also chimed in, but more pragmatically (he would do it to make a profit) on the issue of resubmission to gain higher numerical grades.

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...ons.all.html

Grades were "theoretically established" at least a decade ago at the TPGs. They made many hopeful claims but has there been success?

If the TPGs had been successful - the profitable sub-culture of crackout dealers would no longer be in business. These guys are not helping the hobby - they are helping themselves by taking advantage of other less knowledgeable collectors. It is hard for me to see a great deal of difference between two sellers - one of which sells forgeries to novices and a second that makes a profit from having a coin regarded to a higher but unwarranted level.

The "hobby" (I now use the term loosely) has developed a well earned reputation as being dominated by "thieves" who down grade when buying and inflate grades when selling. Gradeflation and its close relative value based grading is taking us all down the path to where coin dealers will be as well trusted as used car salesmen.

A terrible new world of greed.

One point that I did not make with regard to Second Republican 8Rs is that there is a bias toward very high grades in the post 1880 surviving examples contrasted with the earlier dates when the 8R actually circulated. The fact that most collectors of 8Rs see absolutely no value in having their coins graded is why the best coins are not seen in the TPG population reports. So I am of the opinion that they are more like 50 cent commemoratives than most folks suspect.