First Page
Posted 03/01/2018 03:46 am
Lucky Cuss You ask:
I have not seen any WOI numismatic forgeries in TPG slabs. At least not yet. However, I would still advise caution when working with varieties that were not well documented before the 1960-1970 time frame.
There were some WOI types, both silver and copper, that came from the US in the 1960's. At least that was the common belief at the time. These came in two general types the crude cast type with surface pores and some struck forgeries made with fairly decent replica dies. Some of the Hancock collection are actually copies of the type that my mentors attributed to the US back in the 1960-1975 time frame.
Chinese 8R copies we were aware of before the mid 1970's were horrifically crude and never contained silver. Most were magnetic, badly underweight and often had plain or reeded edges. However, once again, I was not aware of WOI types being made in China back then. They were making "tourist" type copies to sell to gullible tourists.
I am definitely aware of copies of SUDs that were created in Mexico and elsewhere (except China) when these were trading for under $5 each. Again one of my mentors in Mass said he knew of a forger making these copper SUDs in the Attleborough, Mass area. The planchets were sawn from round copper bars, filed and hammered out of round. The dies were cut some by hand others with power tools. The coins were "stamped" on hydraulic presses and the end product was "cured" in horse manure. He also indicated that he believed some of the varieties he sold in his shop were recently made in Mexico as well. He said some buyers loved the "new varieties" and snapped them up as fast as he could get them in. I believe that XRF identification of trace contaminants will be the solution to divide the genuine from the modern forgeries.
Finally there is, (in my opinion), a class of contemporary debased silver counterfeits of Royalist issues (in particular Zacatecas types) that were likely made by Rebel forces in Mexico. I would theorize they were made for the purpose of damaging the reputation of the Royalist issues at the US mint. During the War and after the US mint had a buy order for Royalist Mexican 8Rs because they were high in gold content. I have not yet developed a fool proof method of dividing the two types because there is some variation in all of the coins.
Quote:
What is PCGS & NGC's track record in certifying WOI material?
Also, is there any indication that any of these fakes are of Mexican origin, or are they emanating out of China as is typical for most current forgeries?
What is PCGS & NGC's track record in certifying WOI material?
Also, is there any indication that any of these fakes are of Mexican origin, or are they emanating out of China as is typical for most current forgeries?
I have not seen any WOI numismatic forgeries in TPG slabs. At least not yet. However, I would still advise caution when working with varieties that were not well documented before the 1960-1970 time frame.
There were some WOI types, both silver and copper, that came from the US in the 1960's. At least that was the common belief at the time. These came in two general types the crude cast type with surface pores and some struck forgeries made with fairly decent replica dies. Some of the Hancock collection are actually copies of the type that my mentors attributed to the US back in the 1960-1975 time frame.
Chinese 8R copies we were aware of before the mid 1970's were horrifically crude and never contained silver. Most were magnetic, badly underweight and often had plain or reeded edges. However, once again, I was not aware of WOI types being made in China back then. They were making "tourist" type copies to sell to gullible tourists.
I am definitely aware of copies of SUDs that were created in Mexico and elsewhere (except China) when these were trading for under $5 each. Again one of my mentors in Mass said he knew of a forger making these copper SUDs in the Attleborough, Mass area. The planchets were sawn from round copper bars, filed and hammered out of round. The dies were cut some by hand others with power tools. The coins were "stamped" on hydraulic presses and the end product was "cured" in horse manure. He also indicated that he believed some of the varieties he sold in his shop were recently made in Mexico as well. He said some buyers loved the "new varieties" and snapped them up as fast as he could get them in. I believe that XRF identification of trace contaminants will be the solution to divide the genuine from the modern forgeries.
Finally there is, (in my opinion), a class of contemporary debased silver counterfeits of Royalist issues (in particular Zacatecas types) that were likely made by Rebel forces in Mexico. I would theorize they were made for the purpose of damaging the reputation of the Royalist issues at the US mint. During the War and after the US mint had a buy order for Royalist Mexican 8Rs because they were high in gold content. I have not yet developed a fool proof method of dividing the two types because there is some variation in all of the coins.
