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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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t360's Avatar
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 Posted 08/06/2019  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1610 King Charles IX of Sweden

4 Mark
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Charles IX
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 08/06/2019  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Scary comb-over on Charles IX!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 08/07/2019  01:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thaler, Saxony, 1609

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2019  04:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
an old silver Thaler like this one is pretty intoxicating

For >40 yrs I collected nothing else ! Old silver can be magic, when the teeth of time are gentle and tone a coin in a wonderful though often imperfect manner. But I recently started to collect old copper too; copper has different qualities and shows other effects of time.

1609 is the year that the 12 year truce was signed between the Archdukes Albert and Isabella Clara Eugenia. Below a copy of the first page of the signed document, now present in the National Archives in The Hague (Staten-Generaal, nummer toegang 1.01.02, inventarisnummer 12588.20).

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

We'll see during the next weeks with copper and silver pieces some evidence of a prolonged period of hostilities that divided and impoverished the wealthy 17 Provinces (current Holland, Belgium, Luxemburg and Northern France); ripping the region into pieces that would never completely unite again.

However, the 12 year truce (1609-1621) brought back some rest so that the Northern and Southern provinces could breathe and return to normal life.

Below three copper jetons from 1609. The first two (Dugn.3647 and Dugn.3658) are from the Spanish Netherlands; the third (Dugn.3651) is from the revolting United Provinces.

Dugn.3647 praises the wisdom of the archdukes: SAPIENTIA DUCE

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Dugn.3648 from the chamber of finances of Brabant shows the Lion again as symbol of strength of the Spanish Netherlands

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Dugn.3651 want to make the statement of a wake up call, warning against too much confidence in a truce with the enemy
obverse: sleeping soldier between a drum and armature QVISCO and Roman date
reverse: Mercurius pulls the ears of the soldier to wake him up PLVS VICILA

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Belgium
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 Posted 08/07/2019  04:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
We'll see during the next weeks with copper and silver pieces some evidence of a prolonged period of hostilities that divided and impoverished the wealthy 17 Provinces (current Holland, Belgium, Luxemburg and Northern France); ripping the region into pieces that would never completely unite again.


I am sorry, I am not part of this kind of coins (but I would be very much )
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 Posted 08/07/2019  06:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Double Tournoi from the French County of Nevers-Rethel dated AD 1609:



How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 08/07/2019  07:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Such great coins and tokens already today!

1609 Riga solidus/schilling under Polish-LIthuanian Commonwealth. Variety with date as 609.
I like the small fox at 12:00 rev. I assume this is the mark of the mintmaster at Riga, as it appears on these Riga schillings from 1609-1622. Before that, it is a lily. Maybe we will see some as we continue to move back in time.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by tdziemia
08/07/2019 07:47 am
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 Posted 08/07/2019  11:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1609 -- Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth / Kingdom of Poland, 1 groschen:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

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 Posted 08/08/2019  03:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Groschen, Poland, 1608
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Belgium
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 Posted 08/08/2019  05:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
some of the Dutch jetons from the year 1608 have a political meaning and allude to the negotiations that were place to prepare the 12 year truce ; the North (on the winning side at that moment) was divided and many were against a truce

here is one example from the province of Zeeland with a nice array of coats-of-arms of the Zeeland cities; the most interesting part is the reverse: a warning against the truce which is depicted as a new type of Trojan horse

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

an other example from the province of Ghelders with on the obverse the enigmatic Ostrich; one interpretation is that this emblem-like picture is a warning against the hypocrisy of the diplomats of the Spanish Netherlands

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

the second jeton was discussed in detail in another thread
http://goccf.com/t/336420&whichpage=3#2884341



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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 08/08/2019  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More striking jetons!

I have the Lithuanian counterpart to @giljan's coin, Sigismund III, 1608 Lithuanian groschen
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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 Posted 08/08/2019  09:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1608 -- Principality of Arches-Charleville (Duchy of Nevers and Rethel?), 2 liards:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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 Posted 08/08/2019  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Double Tournois from France dated AD 1608:


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Valued Member
Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2019  05:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Groschen, Poland, 1607

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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 08/09/2019  06:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Me too, even same type today (though with a scruffy beard, and a collr that divides the legend). We are back into coins with Siggy busts.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by tdziemia
08/09/2019 06:54 am
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