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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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Spence's Avatar
United States
34465 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2019  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 2 Kreutzer from the German Countship of Pfalz-Simmen dated AD 1589:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2019  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is this a replica?


hard to say from pictures alone,
what is the specific gravity ?

1589 here is another Leeuwendaalder (a.k.a. "Lion Dollar") a revolutionary coin minted in Dordrecht since 1575;

1589 is the year that other provinces like Utrecht started minting Leeuwendaalders too
what started in 1575 as a means to collect taxes in order to support the war effort of the revolt, became since 1589 more and more a coin that would become an international Trade dollar

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864



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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2019  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1589 one year after the failure of the Spanish Armada to conquer England

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

1589 Dugn.3230, vLoonI.394.2, Tas259 'Spaanse Armada verslagen' -
Obv: queen Elizabeth I on a victory carriage praying 'Our Father (Onze Vader)'from the bible TANDEM · BONA · CAVSA · TRIVMPHAT
Rev: Birds nest attacked by bird of prey SI · NON · VIRIBVS · AT · CAVSA OBV

the quality of this jeton is such that the text Onze Vader (first two lines, one line per page) is readable
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2019  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1589 -- Duchy of Livonia / Riga, 3 groschen:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7974 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2019  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

@pepactonius, in case you don't have the Iger attribution, it looks like R.89.1.a(R2) with lilies at top flanking III (mine has one lily at end of reverse legend).
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
18069 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  04:52 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1588 Double Tournois from France:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7974 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last day for Sigismund III coins.
I have another trojak from the Riga mint:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Quote:
Is this a replica?


hard to say from pictures alone,
what is the specific gravity ?


weight is 26,7gr, diam = 41mm
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
we will miss the posts of the familiar face of Sigismund Wasa on silver coins with so many interesting mint varieties - but edition VI will bring him back again !

for 1588 I have a jeton from the Northern provinces and a Philipsdaalder from the Spanish Netherlands

Jeton from Dordrecht, Dugn.3188, showing a (Dutch or English) family kneeling and thanking the Lord that the Spanish Armada was destroyed the reverse shows the broken ships; the obverse is special as there are not many coins/medals from that period showing children - here is an exception

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

the Philipsdaalder from Antwerp shows the portrait of an elderly king and a very clear mintmark of the city (a hand)

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864


the name "Antwerpen" has been connected to the legend of a Roman Soldier Silvius Brabo who killed the nasty giant Antigoon and tossed his hand (Dutch "hand werpen") into the Scheldt river

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

if only we could stop of slow down the high-speed train of this thread and take time to reflect on what happened during 1588, a crucial year in the war between the United Provinces & England versus Spain.

Here is a short account (see excellent Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada).

Philip II had constructed an impressive fleet in the harbors of Northern Spain in order to launch a strategy to England. Only a few years earlier as we'll see soon, Elisabeth I had offered military help to Holland and Zeeland in order to resist the unstoppable successes of Alexander Farnese who conquered city after city for the Spanish Netherlands. Instead of concentrating on one target, the plan of Philip was to invade England with a huge armada that would important resources mobilize soldiers and artillery from the army of Flanders. Farnese was desperate when he heard the news of this plan, but he could only obey his king.

Farnese was right, the Armada was a very risky operation. Not only did the Spanish fleet fail to pick up the Flemish army and heavy artillery in the harbors of the Spanish Netherlands; it was under heavy attack by English war ships and early Autumn storms that pushed the Armada through the Channel East of England so that the ships needed to sail North over the tip of Scotland West and South again. Unfortunately heavy storms wrecked many ships on the Western coasts of Ireland. After heavy losses the remains of a shattered myth returned to Spain.

For England of Elisabeth I this unfolding of military events was a major victory. For the United Provinces it was a turning point, ending the "ten years of Farnese" and starting the "ten years of Maurits".
One could speculate that the disaster of the Armada was a starting point of a shift of power positions in Europe. Here is the famous 1588 Armada portrait of Elizabeth by George Gower.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

below two contemporary impressions of the meeting between the Armada and English battle ships (forefront) in August 1588, (unknown artists)

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1588 Christian I of Saxony

1/4 Thaler

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 08/28/2019  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1588 -- Kingdom of Hungary, 1 denar:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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erafjel's Avatar
Sweden
2124 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2019  02:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Navarre/Bearn, 1/4 ecu, Henry II, 1587, Pau mint.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

The Navarrese province of Bearn minted its own coins, with the same design as the coins of Navarre (and in fact, of France), but with modified coat of arms and slightly modified inscriptions. Henry was Lord Henry II of Bearn and at the same time he was king Henry III of Navarre. In 1589, as head of the house of Bourbon when his cousin Henry III of France died without children, he stood as heir to the throne of France. Consequently, he became Henry IV of France (and Navarre) - the only monarch having had three consecutive numbers?

On the coins from Bearn, Henry's lordship is signified by the letters DB - Dominus Bearnie - after his regal title (REX NAVARRAE D B). The reverse shows the arms of Navarre, Bearn (two cows), Aragon, the house of Bourbon, and more. The inscription is the motto of the Bearnese Lords: GRATIA DEI SUM id QuoD SUM (By the grace of God I am who I am).

Pau was very early to employ mechanical coining for silver coins. Compared to ecus from other mints (in Navarre as well as France), those from Pau are much more regular and evenly struck.
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Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2019  03:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thaler, Saxony, 1587

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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7974 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2019  06:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coins already today!

Somewhere back in the 1620s I made a comment that we would get sick of Sigismund coins. Since we have passed out of his reign, here is an accounting:
- between 1631 and 1588 we had 143 coins minted under Sigismund (Poland, Lithuania, Livonia)
- 82 of those coins had a portrait
- Low Countries had 99 coins and tokens in the same period (and are still going strong!)

I have a day off ... no Polish coins minted in 1587.
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2019  08:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1587 -- Kingdom of France, 1/2 franc:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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