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Replies: 34 / Views: 5,733 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts |
If you buy DPRK silver or gold coins, are you breaking some sort of sanctions treaty or international law? I read about some hotshot investor who bought a few million dollars worth of these coins in 2013 at a coin show in Singapore. Just not sure if the treaties or laws surrounding that. I've noticed a few that are available here in Germany.
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
I think you're talking about Jim Rogers, pretty sure it's not illegal in SIngapore but its kind of a moral dilemma as you know the profits from the coin sales will benefit a despotic regime. Same if you go there for a holiday.
Edited by Numister 12/30/2018 11:28 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
When I was just a bit younger, about 50 years ago, I was a member of the coin club in my home town. One day one of the kids had a book full of South African Kruggerands (the coins belonged to his father and the kid lacked permission to have them). There were 48 coins in the book as I recall. It was only one of several nearly identical books that his father had.
At the time a KRand was officially worth $36 US but the coins were not allowed in the US for moral/legal reasons. Odd thing, while US citizens could not own these coins the CIA was actually using them to pay certain overseas operatives (who were not US nationals) who would not accept US currency. These people were performing a service that was IMO absolutely morally reprehensible, although it was justified in the eyes of the CIA. This fellow converted part of his own salary into KRands and brought them with him when his tour ended.
So anytime that anyone questions the "morality" of owning any coin, I see little point in following the current US custom since over time morals apparently change. In addition it seems that certain people are above the law and the government closes a blind eye whenever it is convenient for them to do so.
So I say go for it. No dillema in my view.
Edited by swamperbob 12/30/2018 5:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7940 Posts |
Quote: So anytime that anyone questions the "morality" of owning any coin, I see little point in following the current US custom since over time morals apparently change. Well, of course they do. So, follow your conscience. Usually the best course, unless it conflicts with current law..
Edited by tdziemia 12/30/2018 9:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts |
I guess swamperbob has a point, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, just a matter of perspective I guess. That being said would you want to fund a regime that has nukes pointed at your country.
There was a famous saying by a statesperson; " There are no permanent allies or perpetual enemies, only permanent interests."
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
technically they are under sanction so be aware technically only food stuff and some other items are allow. Otherwise know that you bought coins for a regime that has public executions and extreme education camps (slavery) for mining that is probably how they are able to get the gold and silver.
Wow really Jim Rogers did he really buy 1 million in silver bullion from the North Koreans, probably got a great discount tho.
Edited by ryurazu 12/31/2018 12:51 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Quote: Otherwise know that you bought coins for a regime that has public executions and extreme education camps (slavery) for mining that is probably how they are able to get the gold and silver. I've travelled and lived in many countries in my time mostly as an ONG and I'm Sorry but if you go by this statement you can rule out.... China, Russia, most of the middle East, Large areas of Central and South America, most of Africa, the majority of South East Asia, and quite a few Caribbean islands!.......I could state more but I think you get the gist! Just a thought!
Edited by Palouche 12/31/2018 05:01 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5029 Posts |
 with Paul.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Numister You say: Quote: would you want to fund a regime that has nukes pointed at your country. I see the answer as an entirely personal decision. If you say yes that is OK. If I say no that too is OK. In 1969 I joined the US Navy - my selected duty station was on a ballistic missile submarine. I know that the US has nukes with the capability of striking ANYWHERE on the planet. Coins are for some people purely an investment vehicle. I suspect the person mentioned at the start of this thread is in this category. I am not speaking to investors because they are usually motivated by profit not morality. For others, coin collecting is a hobby. It is a way to keep your brain working. IMO numismatics is not and should not be a politically motivated tool to be used by anyone for any purpose. Historical artifacts like coins are inherently neutral. I think we should be able to collect whatever we want. I would prefer that collecting remains a neutral ground.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
709 Posts |
Re Swampberbob's comments
I was stationed not too many years afterwards on an RAF base in the UK that had US made "tinned sunshine" available for worldwide delivery.
I would like to see coin collecting kept separate from any political/moral/religious views or ends. But now I am a cynic/realist ( the two seem to coincide nowadays ) recognising that there are some people out there who will use anything as a tool to further their own ends.
The images and text on many of mycoins are political statements of their time.
Edited by Anaximander 12/31/2018 1:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
Quote: I would like to see coin collecting kept separate from any political/moral/religious views or ends Quote: Historical artifacts like coins are inherently neutral.
I think we should be able to collect whatever we want.
I would prefer that collecting remains a neutral ground.
 ...Theres your answer....Paul
Edited by Palouche 12/31/2018 2:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Anaximander  These days I far prefer "Canned Sunshine" (orange juice) that comes from Florida.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1185 Posts |
 hobby & historical context are key elements that should support freedom
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1333 Posts |
@Palouche go watch the interview of a person who escaped from North Korea, is it worse than China, or Russia or even the Saudi. I mean are you a person who would buy silver coins from a terrorist group? I would class North Korea as close to the terrorist group, but obviously, I'm not saying you might not want to buy from say a North Korean citizen. I'm just saying if you shouldn't purchase large quality from a regime goon, what do you think they are going to do with your money?
Nothing to do with Politics, don't use a straw man's argument. First, they are under sanctions (is China under sanctions) Secondly, they use any! method to get foreign currency have been known includes fake coins and real coins (usually counterfeiting). To fund their foreign operations.
I mean its a choice up to you want you to want to do with your money.
Edited by ryurazu 01/02/2019 06:31 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
2752 Posts |
 OUCH! @ryurazu... I do apologise! I wasn't having a go at you personally, thought I was just stating the obvious! I don't feel I need to watch censored TV media, I lived there for 8 weeks many years ago( it was long enough), as I have done in all the countries I mentioned in my previous post plus others...Which is the worst?,where do you want to draw the line? Political sanctions, there are always ulterior motives, believe me! Anyhow sorry to have riled you, it was quite unintentional!..Paul
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1063 Posts |
It's an interesting debate. I met a guy who takes tours to North Korea, a Kiwi. I said that perhaps we shouldn't even go to North Korea, he was a little drunk and obnoxious at the best of times. He got rather angry saying it helped these poor people earn some money. From my point of view, yes, the North Korean regime is particularly bad to its own people. However there are various countries out there which engage in very questionable actions, such as the US, does this stop me getting US coins? Not really. I live in a country where the government is committing genocide against the population (at the very least it's cultural genocide of Tibetans and Uighur Muslims, and even genocide of its own culture, which started in the times of Mao.) I don't stop living here because of that (I might leave at some point because of the pressures they place on foreigners when getting visas and potentially because of this new social points system they will introduce next year). There are lots of moral points, but then again I'm from a country that has treated people badly, invading countries, keeping down Catholics and the like. At some point you just get on with your life, my buying North Korean coins is hardly going to be the difference between keeping that state going or not.
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Replies: 34 / Views: 5,733 |