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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,016 |
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
Edited by Jayyk31
08/01/2019 05:42 am
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Valued Member
 United States
211 Posts |
3 times a charm....  |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
A curious and important numismatic item.
I would believe this piece to be authentic,
but I have zero experience for my humble part, to support any good opinion one way or the other.
I would feel that some serious research needs to be done to form a much more definite opinion.
Professional numismatic auctioneers such as Heritage, may be able to provide the necessary expertise. Perhaps some pictures submitted to them would help.
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Please crop pics before posting,we only need to see the coin. Also,please delete the posts where the pics did not show. John1  |
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
Thanks sel69 that's a great idea. The only solid info I've found online was an auction on Heritage. Was a piece in an NGC slab, sold for approx 3k, if I remember correctly. I'll keep looking into it. I might send it out to NGC either way.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
709 Posts |
There is mention of these pieces in
Coins of the British Commonwealth of Nations Part 3 : West Indies
Fred Pridmore
published by Spink and Son Ltd 1965
The rosette-like counterstamp is a design of "seven bonded arrows", and is the second design authorised by the Dutch. Part-dollars with this counterstamp were issued from 1797.
The Dutch spelling of the island name is "Maarten". The spelling of your counterstamp is the French version of the name. Pridmore shows a photo of a piece with both this French counterstamp and the Dutch 7-bonded arrows on p258 of his work. It should be remembered that the Netherlands were under French control for most of the Napoleonic wars.
Pridmore says this double-stamped piece was later than the Dutch version of the 7-bonded arrows but does not give an exact date. It was issued by joint French-Dutch control, hence the two counterstamps. He does say that only a few specimens have been recovered, which would affect its value. By the time this piece was issued the Spanish dollar was valued at 15 "reaals" (sic). Weights of these pieces put them as representing 3 reaals.
I am no expert and cannot comment on whether or not this is genuine. The only concern I have is that your 7-bonded arrow counterstamp is practically circular. The tiny photos in Pridmore's work show the design as almost circular, like an overblown "8" lying on its side. I don't know if this is significant.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7934 Posts |
Very neat coin. I'm intrigued by the thought of cutting a coin in 5!
If it's potentially worth 3K, I would send it out.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Thanks for showing us the edge as it's useful for authentication. It appears to have the correct pattern for 8 reales of this period. Although I collect 8 reales of Charles III, I don't know much about the counterstamps used in the Caribbean. If authentic, it would date the host to somewhere between 1772-1789. It's important to compare it to as many examples of coins with the same counterstamps as you can find. I agree that it seems like a good idea to send it to a TPG for authentication, especially given the potential value. Edited by jgenn
08/02/2019 01:28 am
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
I came across this when I downloaded a pdf guide from Krause...  There is also a 1/4 cut version as well. Thanks for that info Anaximander! I'm gonna look into that counter stamp bundle of arrows more. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Before buying West Indies either buy slabs and/or have a good library/auction library so you can plate match and verify weights.
My West Indies Collection was sold privately and via Stacks 2009-2010. Check their archives. Never owned this rarity. Nice! If real ...
John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
@ colonialjohn yeah man I hear that! I was buying some Morgans and and the guy said he had some "pirate ship" coins for me to look at! I paid $40 each for 3 coins; this 1/5 cut, an Ottoman 2 Kuruish And another smaller silver colonial with Phillip v (which I have no idea about)! I took a gamble on this one!
Edited by Jayyk31
08/04/2019 05:18 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
I would send it into NGC ... from the photos it looks genuine to me!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7934 Posts |
Quote:
... the guy said he had some "pirate ship" coins for me to look at! I paid $40 each for 3 coins If it's genuine, that would be a great end to the story, as the other two (posted elsewhere) were an 8 escudo copy, and a common 19th c. Ottoman coin. Would be nice to see the tables turned! |
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
Sent it out to NGC this morning. I'll post back results.
Guy also had a legit slabbed "El Cazador" coin but wanted $300 for it. I passed. All the stuff I got from him was legit except for that 1 "Escudo" copy. Well see....
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Valued Member
United States
211 Posts |
Got an email from NGC this morning. Its genuine. I'm just waiting to find out the grade. Heres a pic....  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
709 Posts |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,016 |
Posted 08/01/2019 06:41 am
