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1940 LWC Lamination?

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SilverCents's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  9:35 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin is kind of throwing me off. There is obvious damage, but the flakiness of the coin at the point where I took the photo is slightly confusing me.

Thoughts?

I'm neither saying this is a lamination or not, I just want to confirm is all, as the damage is throwing me off. This seems like basic information as well so I feel kind of silly asking it, but it never hurts not to ask.

1940-LWC-Lamination?
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SilverCents's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  10:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same thing for the nose as well, notice how it kind of seems as if it's flaking off.


1940-LWC-Lamination?

It would be a minor lamination of course, if it was one.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It maybe a lamination issue. But this type is more of a distraction (minus for the coin) than a premium for the coin.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@sc, this is a good one to post as I expect you may get divergent opinions. To me it looks more like damage alone, although I agree that the top edge of this area is a bit ragged.
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SilverCents's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting, thank you both Coop and Spence for the information.

@Coop Yes that makes total sense. The lamination is so minor that it is difficult to distinguish from actual damage, which causes it, as you said, to be considered damage until further investigated upon.

@Spence Thank you, I can definitely see how it could be damage. I will take no side here, agreeing with anyone. I just want to see what everyone thinks.
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Greasy Fingers's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  10:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IMO...1st photo: 2 options 1)PMD pending what area on reverse looks like 2)struck through copper foil debris (which at same time during circulation fell off...Photo #2 tip of the nose PMD and section above and behind nostril struck through copper foil..That's how I see from your photos
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SilverCents's Avatar
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 Posted 05/12/2020  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Greasy Fingers. I've never heard of struck through copper foil.

I will post photos of the reverse in the morning, as I am very tired right now.

Could you perhaps enlighten me on what struck through copper foil is? Is it more or less common like similar struck through debris?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 05/13/2020  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the Copper plated Zincolns it is possible to have a planchet get broken and leave slivers of copper plating that get struck onto a coin:
1940-LWC-Lamination?
This was laying on the surface of the coin, I left it there and put into a 2X2. But on the OP's coin the lamaintion can be a struck through debris and attach itself to the coin. (not by choice) These will be more rounded than a lamination. A lamination usually runs in a straight line because it is rolled onto the metal after the metal has cooled.
1940-LWC-Lamination?
Because the metal is cooled and the debris which can be big on the copper stock, it get stretched and rolled onto the stock metal. Never really attaches, but when the blanks are cut and the upset rim is added (proto rim), it loosens the laminations and sometimes fall off the planchet before striking or after striking. If it falls off before, the planchet will be uneven in thickness:
1940-LWC-Lamination?
1940-LWC-Lamination?
Because the planchet is uneven, areas won't strike up because the planchet not being the same thickness.
If it falls off after the strike then the area will show the outline of the lamaination:
1940-LWC-Lamination?
1940-LWC-Lamination?
1940-LWC-Lamination?
Notice how the peel off area shows a ghost image of the devices? That is how you can tell it is a lamination issue. On a struck though onto the coin like wire or something else, all evidence of what should be there will be totally gone:
1940-LWC-Lamination?
The reverse will be normal as the shape is contained in the die:
1940-LWC-Lamination?
If the coin was struck and something was squeezed onto the coin or altered the coin, it will push through on the opposite side, because it didn't happen during the strike.
1940-LWC-Lamination?
Sometimes the coin will bend, telling us it was damaged.
But seeing how the coin is affected, tells us what it is. You just have to figure out by trial and elimination how it could happen. Incuse mark on one side, pushing out on the reverse = damage. Happened after the strike. 99% of the time the incuse marks on coins happened after the strike and are not a mint error. Just a damaged coin. If we see the metal affected in straight lines, then we consider if it is a lamination error. More circular in shape, perhaps a struck through debris. Just detective work to see what could of happened. Hope this helps. If I strayed away from what you wanted to know, ask another question. Sometimes the subjects inter lock. Other times the are an easy call. Just depends on what we can see and if the image is real clear, that helps even more.

CoopHome Laminations - foil - damage - peel
Edited by coop
05/13/2020 12:10 am
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Kloccwork419's Avatar
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 Posted 05/13/2020  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kloccwork419 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heres a cool one for you coop.
1940-LWC-Lamination?
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Daves Errors's Avatar
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1566 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2020  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Daves Errors to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With all the indents around the area, I would say it took a hit in some manner as the nose also took a hit. PMD
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