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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,234 |
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Valued Member
United States
462 Posts |
WHY? Why do you collect coins? For me, the Commemoratives are beautiful to look at. I take out my Silver Eagle Proofs at least once a week to admire, much like a painting on the wall. As for the older coins, it is fun to imagine how many different pockets, purses, coin holders, cash drawers, banks, etc. that it has visited. Also, how many different financial transactions it has helped to facilitate. The quarter I hold in my hand wouldn't get me much more than a gumball today, but it got my father a gallon of gas, my grandfather a new pair of Levi's and my great grandfather a 100 lb bag of sugar and a 100 lb bag of flour. The investment part of it is a secondary consideration but I will sell very little, if any, so this is not of greatest importance. For investment, straight bullion bars are better. Why do collectors not want to clean coins? Most items that are collected must be cleaned. Cars, firearms, thimbles, tea cups and whatever else is collected are usually kept clean. I have seen numismatists post on here "we like the coins grimy, greasy, dirty and untouched" and I was just wondering why? I am not talking about wire brush cleaning, chemical cleaning or any harsh cleaning, but enough cleaning to see what kind of coin it is or if it is even a coin instead of a washer or plug. For me personally, I like a shiny coin instead of a dull coin as a shiny coin shows the features much better. Along with this, I see people say don't touch a coin. I understand this for proofs and uncirculated coins, but I see a person holding a coin in his hands that sold for $402,000.00, on these forums. A side question is this, Are there a subset of numismatists who prefer to collect cleaned up coins? Why do people place coins in safe deposit boxes? I understand if you have a coin that is worth more than $1,000.00 and it needs to be kept safe. But I see folks who put a 50 coin roll of 1998 pennies in a Safe Deposit Box. Doesn't the bank charges for the box add up fairly quickly? Besides, the whole idea of collecting is so that you can look at what you collect. I do have a safe in my house for the more valuable items, but it is open more than locked. Are numismatists competitive? IE I have more coins than you! or My X coin is nicer than yours! In a friendly kind of way. I also Geocache and people keep track of how many finds everyone has, but in a friendly way. Are there bartering services for numismatists to trade coins? If I want to trade Coin X for Coin Y, is there a Paypal type of service that will do this? I have all kinds of questions on Grading, but here are a couple. How hard is it to learn how to grade? I see the scale from 1 to 70 and I see that a coin can be sent to PCGS three times and get a grade of 62, 64 and 60. The seller wants it to be 64 and the buyer says it is 60 till he buys it and then all of a sudden, it becomes a 65. I see the term "under graded" and "under valued" all the time on ebay. Next question is this, If I grade a coin and then ask someone else to grade it, is it better to average the two grades or take the lower grade or take the higher grade, everything else being equal (skills, experience, knowledge, etc.) If I am new, of course you give the higher experienced person more weight. A side question to this, Who can I get to grade my grading ability? The nearest coin shop to me is in Albuquerque, nearly 300 miles away, so I can't just pop down to my local coin shop, there isn't one. That is enough questions for now, but I have many more. Thank you for all your help and advice. Mike Aka MtnCoinMan |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Mike, That's several threads' worth of topics. :) Why do I collect coins? That's a question that my wife and one of my son's has for me. Probably because of the connection to history, and because I think it's neat to have things that have some sort of rarity to them. Cleaning: If a coin could be cleaned without damaging the coin, I imagine that collectors wouldn't consider it a Bad Thing™. But as it is, cleaning a coin typically does damage the surface of the coin. Grading: I'm bad at it. I know that with practice, I can become good at it. There is a forum here where you can post pictures of coins, so others can offer opinions on the grade. Pretty good way to learn. ebay: On ebay, there are probably very few slabbed coins (graded by a reputable grading service) that are undergraded. The coins probably tend to be slightly overgraded, or at least they fall in the lower end of quality for the grade. If the coin really is undergraded (and assuming that the coin would draw significantly more in the next higher grade), the seller would upgrade the slab rather than throwing it out there on ebay as it is. Just a few of my thoughts on the matter. I don't have the knowledge of most of the other folks here, so if I could I'd pass you a grain of salt. Edited by steve199
12/02/2008 7:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Again, welcome to the forums. 
"Why do collectors not want to clean coins?"You're bound to get a lot of opinions here, and it's for the same reasons why a collector shouldn't polish a Revolutionary War era musket or remove ages of dirt off a 18th C. piece of furniture--you're affecting the original surface of something that's treasured for those details. The same goes for coins--that original surface is the subtlest part of the coin, one that tells a story about the process used to make it and is an inherent part of its beauty. Remove any part of that, and you're taking something away from the coin's character. Better a "dirty" coin with character than a shiny one without.  "Why do you collect coins?"I'm looking for something interesting, unusual, or rare in the coins I collect. Sometimes I succeed there, while most of the time I just learn something new, which keeps collecting interesting. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
507 Posts |
Quote:
Why do you collect coins? Because I enjoy it? I agree with you that proofs are pretty, and old coins have a tie to history. Foreign coins are fun to contemplate, too. Where is this from? What alphabet is that? Why did they put that on a coin? That makes me wonder, why do we put the things we do on our coins? Quote:
Why do collectors not want to clean coins? You eventually find that some 'cleaning' is acceptable or even necessary. But when a newcomer asks about cleaning, "don't do it" is the always-safe reply. Just think of it as damage that can't be undone. Quote:
Why do people place coins in safe deposit boxes? Because the bank's security is better than mine. Because coins are easily liquid and don't come with serial numbers. Because the sentimental value of grampa's coins adds value that can't be replaced. A SDB can hold a lot of coins. Also, even if each coin isn't worth much, the cumulative value adds up. 500 coins worth $2 each is $1000, too, and they'll fit in your pockets. Quote:
Are numismatists competitive? If you check the PCGS website, you'll find "registry"s. There, people compete to have the highest PCGS graded sets, and pay lots of money to do it. Quote:
Are there bartering services for numismatists to trade coins? Lots of places here and there, like our community, but nothing with the big name and drawing power of sites like ebay. Quote:
How hard is it to learn how to grade? I'm still working on this myself. I think it's easier to pick one denomination than skip around. Take a bunch of nickels (or cents, or...) from your change jar, and see if you can make out a set from About Good to Almost Uncirculated. WheatieFan |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
I will address one aspect of your queries--how hard is it to learn to grade? There is a reason that coins sent to top slabbing services are basically graded "by committee." More than one set of eyes looking at a coin can pick out features/flaws one person might miss. Since you are only one person, I suggest not worrying about how to 'grade' coins until you learn how to look at coins. Developing a consistent set of steps you take when looking at each coin regardless of type will cement good habits no matter where the hobby takes you. Your instincts are right to lead you to regard the terms 'undergraded' and 'undervalued' with suspicion. Quote:
I see the scale from 1 to 70 and I see that a coin can be sent to PCGS three times and get a grade of 62, 64 and 60 Has the coin changed (unlikely) or does the subjective nature of grading lead to some strange results when coins are slabbed? You have to figure that about half of the professional graders are below average. Another reason why the number on the slab should ultimately be immaterial to you. Quote:
If I grade a coin and then ask someone else to grade it, is it better to average the two grades or take the lower grade or take the higher grade, everything else being equal (skills, experience, knowledge, etc.) If I am new, of course you give the higher experienced person more weight. Do not average grades. Two people might not even understand the relevant features of the series they are grading, much less the anomalies of the year and mint. Best to treat each coin as an opportunity to understand how others look at coins, so you can refine your own technique. Quote:
Who can I get to grade my grading ability? You! You could pick out a few coins that are of interest to you, look at them, write your grades down, take good pics, and post them in the grading section of this website. Evaluate the responses you receive in light of your own grade. Another way to do it would be to use a site like Teletrade to gather photographs of slabbed coins. For each lot sold on Teletrade there is a picture of the coin in the slab and in close-up. If you have someone else pick out the pictures, you can devise your own personal test. Let's say you want to learn to grade Lincoln cents--Teletrade has offered 233 Lincoln lots from 1909-1915 in varied grades over the past 60 days. There's lots you can do with this data, you just have to be creative. For example, I just looked at some of the listings and thought--"Hey, I wonder whether I could take 15 pictures of Lincolns graded from VF-35 to MS-67 and put them in the same order the slabbing services did (VF-35/EF-40-45/AU-50-53-55-58/MS-60-61-62-63-64-65-66-67). While I might not agree with the grades, such an exercise could help build a better understanding of what earns a particular grade. Your questions are the 'big' ones, but take your time and you'll develop strategies to shrink them--HABIB |
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Valued Member
Singapore
104 Posts |
wow, this is going to be a long one... :)
but it's going to be a good read, I'm sure.
i'll just be a reader for now ;)
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Moderator
 Australia
16806 Posts |
Quote:
Why do you collect coins? For me, it's all about the history. Coins are one of the few ancient inventions that still retain the same function in society (more or less) that they did thousands of years ago. Quote:
Why do collectors not want to clean coins? I think wheatiefan touched on the main reason why coins shouldn't be cleaned: cleaning is irreversible. Cleaning permanently changes the surface appearance of a coin. If you clean a coin and decide it looked better the way it was, too bad - it can't become "uncleaned" again. Quote:
...enough cleaning to see what kind of coin it is or if it is even a coin instead of a washer or plug... Clearly, there are exceptions to the "Don't clean coins" rule, and this is one of them. Any coin found after being buried underground for any length of time will require cleaning. If a coin has physical dirt, contagious corrosion, PVC damage, paint, varnish, glue or other "foreign contamination", then clean away, using an appropriate method. Quote:
Are there a subset of numismatists who prefer to collect cleaned up coins? Collectors of ancient and mediaeval coins would probably qualify. There's no such thing as an ancient coin that's never been cleaned, because all ancient coins that survive to the present day have been lost, buried for a thousand years or more, dug up, and cleaned. But as far as ,modern coins are concerned, no, not that I'm aware of. They've probably all gone off to form their own little cabal somewhere.  Quote:
Why do people place coins in safe deposit boxes? It's not something I personally understand, but then I don't have much in the way of valuable coins. Quote:
Are numismatists competitive? Some are. There's all sorts of other "friendly competition" besides the ones mentioned, if you know where to look for it. For example, collectors trying to get "one coin from every country" will boast about how many different countries they've got (I'm up to 670 coin-or-token-issuing entities). The local coin club is also a great place to brag about your coins, because everyone there is as fanatical about coins as you are, if not more so. It's certainly a lot more satisfying than "bragging" to your non-numismatic friends and family - all you normally get from them is that eyes-glazed-over "yeah, whatever" look. Quote:
Are there bartering services for numismatists to trade coins? Yes. Such "swaps" can even be arranged right here on the forum, in the "Coins for Trade" section. The usual 50 post minimum. Quote:
How hard is it to learn how to grade? Learning how to grade is like any other skill or art; even a novice with just a little experience can be "pretty good" at grading, but even the professional graders who do it for a living have difficulty getting it perfectly right. Quote:
If I grade a coin and then ask someone else to grade it, is it better to average the two grades or take the lower grade or take the higher grade, everything else being equal... I would take the opportunity to improve my grading skill. Ask the other person why they have graded it differently to you. If you agree with their reasoning, take their grade. If you think they're being unreasonable, take your grade. Quote:
Who can I get to grade my grading ability? I assume you mean, besides the Internet and the fine folks here on the forum. Is there a coin club nearby? Club members are a wealth of collector knowledge and experience, and have the advantage of having the same "collector perspective" as you - so you don't have to worry about the collector vs dealer argument. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
MtnCoinMan, I'll just bite off one piece at a time ... grading first. Several years ago I sucked at it. I could distinguish between a VG and an MS-65 five out of ten times. Then I realized that if I wanted to continue in the hobby I had to protect myself. Fast forward 10 years ... and after looking at hundreds of thousands of coins, and paying attention to various attributes of graded coins in PCGS and NGC slabs I was able to distinguish what's important and what's not. I developed an eye for it on silver halfs and dollars. I still suck at most other denominations, but I can look at a Morgan dollar and be within one grade of PCGS 9 out of 10 times now. Bottom line ... practice. There is some science to it, but there's also a whole lot of art! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6326 Posts |
I'll address this one..... Quote:
Why do people place coins in safe deposit boxes?
I understand if you have a coin that is worth more than $1,000.00 and it needs to be kept safe. But I see folks who put a 50 coin roll of 1998 pennies in a Safe Deposit Box. Doesn't the bank charges for the box add up fairly quickly? Besides, the whole idea of collecting is so that you can look at what you collect. I do have a safe in my house for the more valuable items, but it is open more than locked. Why I choose a Safety Deposit Box over a home safe....1. Fireproof....... your safe isn't.....(the best ( reasonably priced) ones are up to 30-45 minutes at a certain temperature.... and the contents can still "melt".)(And what if the fire Department, for whatever reason, doesn't get there for two hours   )(Or if it takes them 3 or 4 hours to "put the fire out" !...  2. Waterproof/floodproof..... your safe isn't....simply put and matter of fact.. 3. Thief proof....... your safe isn't.....( and a gun to your wife or childs head will open that safe in about two seconds !)(and as much as they might look like it......safes are NOT burgler proof)(there've been pictures posted here on CCF of safes being peeled open and broken into...or just the entire safe taken to open later at their leisure) 4. Humidity control protection...... your safe isn't.....humidity is cancer for coins...everytime you open it....moisture from the air rushes in. 5. Just an overall sense of security.....when I'm gone for a weekend out of town or on a two week vacation or something. And as far as convenience, I can always go pull some out and bring home to "work on" or "admire" for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, and then take them back when I'm done. It's not that inconvenient for me, but of course, it would be nice to have them all "on hand" all of the time. 6. The cost isn't very much for an entire year of "rental", and it would take 20 years of the "Safety Deposit Rental" to equal what I would need to spend on a safe at home. So, these are some of the reasons I chose NOT to get a safe at home.
Edited by eaglefoot
12/03/2008 12:47 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
1361 Posts |
Sap, I agree to everything you said. Wellsaid and well answered.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Welcome again to this forum.
My suggestion is a little different than others.
For one thing attempt to keep to one subject. Attempt to not make a post so long. Then your answers tend to get long.
It may be only me but I'm old and get bored easily. With very long stories I just pass over or fall asleep. No kidding, I do.
Also, you would get a lot of great answers per subject if you kept to just one. In addition some time later if you wanted to find something, a one subject topic could be easier to find.
Just the rantings of an old man.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,234 |
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Posted 12/02/2008 7:42 pm
