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2016 Roosevelt Quarter Shattered Die?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, the concentric circles don't match with being cut by pliers. If you can't account for all effects with an explanation, then the explanation should be discarded.
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 Posted 11/02/2020  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the thing. The concentric circles go to, and then continue on past the "U". It appears to do the same with the "S" though the top of the "s" is missing.

Any post minting damange that would create those concentric features would have obliterated the letters. Therefore that damage was done to the planchent before the strike.

I'm an Engineer. I have a working knowledge of dies and stampings. I can not make a definitive statement without seeing it in person and putting it under my loop. However; my professional opinion is that it is geniune, absent that personal inspection
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 Posted 11/02/2020  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RW1010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks big-kingdom nick10 and jmkendall. I'm going to take a gamble and send it in. Overall look is telling me this is not PMD. I also would expect to see more damage if somebody put the pliers to this one. It will be an educational experience for me at least when it comes back whether real or faked.
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MOS0239's Avatar
1110 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MOS0239 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess most of us think it's real, real damage.

Who will you be submitting it to and with what attribution?

We all look forward to seeing it slabbed or bagged.
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Numis-Northerner's Avatar
Canada
857 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Obviously PMD, don't waste your money.
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 Posted 11/02/2020  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RW1010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks mos0239. I'm sending stuff to all 3 TPG's so haven't decided which one this will go to
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MOS0239's Avatar
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 Posted 11/02/2020  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MOS0239 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm sending stuff to all 3 TPG's


All? Okay, good luck!!
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 Posted 11/02/2020  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RW1010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks numis-northerner. I'm interested in what the TPG has to say
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 Posted 11/02/2020  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RW1010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks mos0239. Doubled dies going to anacs errors to NGC and high grades to PCGS. Wish I could do a bulk submission now but it won't work out for me until later. Probably going to anacs with the doubled dies
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MOS0239's Avatar
1110 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MOS0239 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34427 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It will be an educational experience for me at least when it comes back whether real or faked


Ok yes that sounds like a good plan to move forward even with our input. When you hear back, can you please post to this thread whatever the TPG thinks? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the area with the circle lines, those devices are incuse, not raised. So if you used a dremel tool on that area, the devices are incuse (below the fields) so the fields could be altered but it would take a deep mark to be alter the deep incuse devices. On The VDB on cents on the bust (1918-2021)
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?, the VDB on the Shield cents and the ATB devices on the out reverse ring, these are incuse devices. I have an image of a EPU that shows deep damage to a device:
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
So the lines are above the devices. This coin is damaged. Just a face value coin. Someone trying to make it look like an error coin. (When it is not)
Edited by coop
11/03/2020 5:34 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1207 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RW1010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks spence and coop. I've been collecting for 3 years now and have come across a few unlisted errors and varieties. The first coin I posted here was said to be basically a damaged coin. Turns out it was exactly what I posted in the title. New major doubled die variety. If I just took the word of others who knows how long it may have taken to be discovered if ever. I try add to the hobby not be detrimental to it. Thankfully anacs is running another special for fall so it will cost me a grand total of about 20 bucks to see what's to this coin. Absolutely worth it to me. I really do appreciate everyone's opinions because it helps me make a more informed decision. I always say I don't know or I could be wrong because that is simply the case. I don't comment on much because I don't have the experience or qualifications to. I recently read that even on the 1955 doubled die there was not consensus and some considered it modern junk. The coin was said to be hard to sell for 1 dollar at the time. I like history and I like coins. Sometimes history repeats itself
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 Posted 11/04/2020  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RW1010 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a gamble like playing the lottery or going to the casino. Wish me luck
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  1:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just coin damage. There have been no doubled die reverses on that area of the ATB Quarters. All the doubling there is Machine Doubling on incuse devices:
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
2016-Roosevelt-Quarter-Shattered-Die?
Take piece of new aluminum foil with the shiny side up and the dull side downwards. Press the foil on to the devices. If the devices are raised, they will be raised on the shiny side. If they are incuse, then they will be raised on the dull side. That is one way you can check these to know for sure for yourself. These devices are raised on the die, and the slightest amount of movement of the dies, will alter these devices 70% of the time. (Slight to huge) The doubled dies are on the central areas of the both sides of the coins devices.
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