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You Vs. PCGS 1872 Two Cent Piece #2

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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  6:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin has a couple things going on, see if you can figure them out.

You-Vs.-PCGS-1872-Two-Cent-Piece-#2

You-Vs.-PCGS-1872-Two-Cent-Piece-#2

Once again I will give this coin a couple of days for guesses to roll in. Looking forward to seeing everyone's comments on this coin especially.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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yhbearcats's Avatar
United States
688 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yhbearcats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-58 or MS-63. Late state die based on die cracks and die chip missing in "S" in States. Obverse looks like it might have some Machine Doubling on the motto or my eyes could be deceiving me.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tough call, I'll say AU-58. A knockout.
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Jaobler's Avatar
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6387 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice example of a scarce coin!
I see light wear on the wreath high points and no luster. "WE" is sharp. AU-53 here.
Agree on the very pronounced machine "Longacre" doubling.
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
United States
8938 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU55
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Ty2020b's Avatar
United States
4680 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  9:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-58 obverse, AU-55 reverse. Could go either way..... I'm at AU-56.5
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MOS0239's Avatar
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 Posted 11/02/2020  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MOS0239 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU something. I like that die crack!
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In consideration after reading those posts before this one, the mint may? have reduced striking pressure a bit, to extend the life of old dies.
As a result, expect a range of grading opinions.

The OP is right: a few things going on with this coin, as mentioned by others in this thread.

I will brave enough to say there is some minor wear underneath the patina.
AU-55.
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2340 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice!
I'm going to call
AU55BN
DDO FS-101
smat
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
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5887 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DDO FS-101....the second aspect may be the strong presence of Longacre doubling? If this is indeed Longacre doubling, this may very well be one of the strongest examples I've seen. Nice coin!

-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
Edited by CoinHunter27
11/03/2020 12:40 pm
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panzaldi's Avatar
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18673 Posts
 Posted 11/03/2020  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU53. reverse closer to 50
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CoinHunter27's Avatar
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 Posted 11/05/2020  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHunter27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


-CH27
Collector of U.S. Coins, Varieties, and Colonial Coinage
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2020  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sel_69l you were certainly on the right path, something is definitely going on underneath the patina.

You-Vs.-PCGS-1872-Two-Cent-Piece-#2

This Deuce was smoothed/burnished. SMAT45 and Grape I'll give you each a quarter point.

yhbearcats, trust your eyes, yep it's doubling not machine though, the best kind (HUB Doubling)! I know the photos weren't great for really telling it, but the give away point is the N in "IN", the W in "We" and the R & U in "TRUST" at least you can really see the separation more at those areas.

It is the FS-101 DDO and a really nice example of it too. I didn't end up buying it but came close. It recently (in the past 60 days) sold in auction for just over $1K. If I had to put a numerical grade I'd also go AU55BN. The other key identifiers for the FS-101 DDO are the die cracks at the "IN GOD" and the reverse Die Cracks (obvious to see at the bottom of the Wreath).

There is actually another "ultra rare DDO" 1872, I've only seen a VF example in low resolution B&W scans back in 1994, supposedly there are 3 known and all are VF or lower grade. Which is why I try to look at every single business strike 1872 trying to locate a better (or any) example for myself.

This DDO FS-101 is actually the most common die pairing in 1872, so it shouldn't command much of a premium though many dealers and sellers price it as it should. Now if you were to come across the ultra rare DDO then a premium would be in order. The common DDO FS-101 was discovered by Kevin Flynn, or at least he was the one to first note it in print in his first numismatic book "Getting your Two Cents Worth" back in 1994. As common as these are (relatively) I'm surprised Breen didn't list it in his formative Encyclopedia.

The 1872 business strikes are one of the hardest in the series to find. Proofs abound in the market but a super nice business strike will cost you dearly these days. Back when I was building my #1 collection of high grade examples, I kept upgrading as I found better looking coins, I think I went through half a dozen coins before I settled on a superb example, way more than other dates anyways. According to Kevin Flynn's later research only 4 dies were used in the making of 1872 business strikes (it may be 5 including the new DDO if proven).

I wanted to see if anyone would call the details on this coin. It's almost impossible to tell as the smoothing effect was done by a real expert coin doctor. If you look on the reverse one thing that helps identify the effect is note how low relief the hits are around the numeral 2 to the left side, then look into the wheat sheaves, see how much deeper they are, they should appear that way in the field as the deep as they do in the devices.

But whomever did the work on this coin did a phenomenal job and makes it a very deceiving coin. Heck I might even get fooled 6 out of 10 times looking at ones this well doctored. Also the fact the color is so even and no splotches were remaining after the work, another amazing part of the trickery. This is why you don't want to mess about on high dollar coins without a guarantee or some expert advice, and even some of us would get it wrong on a coin like this.

Nobody guessed the details at all. Though to be fair, it was probably one of the hardest trick grades I've ever plied you all with.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
11/06/2020 01:57 am
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