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Hypothetical Investment Question!

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MtnCoinMan's Avatar
United States
462 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  3:40 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add MtnCoinMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Let's say you were given $5,000.00 to INVEST in coins, NOT add to your collection. You goal is the best return possible. What would you do? But multiples of 2009 Commemoratives for resale, Proofs for resale, older coins that show potential, or something else?

I usually buy real estate, but I think 2009 is NOT going to be a Real Estate, Stock or Mutual Fund year. So I might stick a few grand into coins, just to see what happens.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do think I would buy Gold bullion coins, probably Liberty Double Eagles, and gamble that Gold will go up. If it didn't I'd gladly accept the loss. The risk is low, the potential moderate, and in absolutely the worst case scenario, the smartest investment right next to guns and ammo.
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nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would buy some of the better examples of the rarer Barber coins, as they will gain more value then gold in my view. People are constantly digging up more gold, but no new Barber coins (authentic anyways) will ever be minted.

PS, I think that 2009 will be a great time to buy stock because a lot of issues seem to be at bargain prices right now.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188560 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Disclaimer: I am coin collector, not a coin investor.

Wheezydog's advice about bullion is probably the best. In my opinion, the modern bullion coins were designed more for investment than numismatics anyway. My investment strategy has always been long term; which I think is the best approach!
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gold is the WORST thing you can ever invest in, in particular if the USD is to ever regain back its value. However if you don't have faith with USD, sure why not?

With 5000 USD,
Step 1: buy a catalog, keep studying what coins are excessively undervalued. Let's say Krause brand new. Shouldn't cost any more than 100USD.
Step 2: look out for bargains or varieties that no one couldn't be bothered to pay attention. Fair bit of money to waste.
Step 3: ?
Step 4: Profit!

I have bought a fair share of varieties that most people missed for excellent bargain. Question is whether I am willing to sell it or not.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess I am a pessimist when it comes to the economy. I am still a coin collector, and maybe that's why I collect the ordinary Jefferson for fun avidly, and with excitement.
But to play it safe, coincidentally, I am putting aside a "just in case" portfolio of almost exactly what this topic is about.
I'm in my early 50's. I've seen rough times, I've seen good times, personally, and for most of the people I've been around in my life. I have some doubts that things are really going to be prosperous for the little guy like myself in what time I have left. I hope that my and your kids get to see better days but I think we are in for some rough times. Just my feeling from life experience.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Gxseries posts are always a refreshing antidote to gold mania. Metals is a complex and treacherous area to invest. Don't suppose that small-volume physical prices will drive the market vs. what happens in the macro scale (imo).

Quote:
Step 1: buy a catalog, keep studying what coins are excessively undervalued. Read all you can--knowledge is power.
Step 2: look out for bargains or varieties that no one couldn't be bothered to pay attention. Learn to spot the rare coins! I've found quite a few $200-500+ coins for a few bucks apiece.

Step 4: Profit! I like to get my appreciation up-front if I can.

Disclaimer: I am coin collector, not a coin investor.

I think this philosophy will serve one best in the long-term, when the "investor" madness calms down and collector interest once again drives coin values. There is far too much volume of "investment grade" stuff sloshing around right now...some people are going to get burned big-time on the downslope.
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MorganNoob's Avatar
United States
533 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorganNoob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MHO:
Gold: While I mostly agree with Wheezydog that gold will go up in 2009, I disagree that it is low risk. Why? Gold has ended the year higher the last 8 years running, the USD though it has recovered slightly, is very low. Feels like it might be too late to get on the gold band-wagon. I would go with platinum bullion or silver if I was going into metals.Both have corrected more then gold, and industrial demand for platinum is much higher then gold. Worst thing to invest in? Absolutely not, I think any portfolio should have some precious metals as an inflation hedge.

Coins: If I was looking to invest in coins, I would look for the highest grades of key-date coins that I could afford. I would also look for low mintage oddities that seem under-valued. New-issued commeratives are a gamble, but a safe bet that you won't lose much, they just might stay the same though.

Stocks: This depends on your age. I am 28, and I think that the current market is one of the best buying oppertunities since the Great Depression. If you have a couple years, and are patient I think that you could make some good returns. Good, solid, dividend paying stocks have out-performed EVERY other investment vehicle over ANY 20 year period in the last 100 years... Take that for what it is worth, but that is where my $$$ is going. (Well, whatever I don't spend on my collection...)
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mycrob's Avatar
United States
2602 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If your investment goal is short-tern (less than 1 year), I don't know if anything is really worthwhile other than major key date coins, like 16D merc, 77 Indian cent, 09S VDB Lincoln Cent, 13S T2 Buffalo nickel and others.

If you have multiple years to a decade, I would invest in modern low mintage keys, like 96W dime, 70D JFK half, 70S small date lincoln (certified), maybe some fo the late 30s mint-marked Jeffersons (which are CHEAP) and possibly the 2008 Sac P&D and 2008 JFK P &D, which are each the lowest mintage of their respective series and are destined to be keys. All the Sac and JFK 2008 coins are extremely low mintage (1.7-1.8 million) and are cheap- probably can double your money, but it would take a few years and possibly up to 10 years.

I do not thing any of the older key dates (16D, 09S VDB, etc) will double in 10 years, but they will continue to increase because collector demand will always be strong.
Edited by mycrob
01/02/2009 4:30 pm
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  5:06 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Key dates. 16-D Merc, 01-S Barber quarter, 16 SLQ etc.
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would advise people to back off from the metal market if you don't understand where the supply and demand are coming from and how prices fluctuate. Just some random facts before you want to comment any further: annual gold production annually is about 78 million ounces versus 6 million ounces of platinum if I remember right. There are new sources of gold mines being identified and developed or under expansion. The very few new platinum deposit, one of which I know is in Zimbabwe which is not a good place to invest in. South Africa's platinum production is slowing down as the mining technical difficulties increase due to deeper underground depth. On other hand where 50% of platinum goes straight to catalysts, and automobile industry as a whole is not doing too well...

I would recommend you to read Mattheys on platinum demand and supply usage: http://www.platinum.matthey.com/ Don't just take my word for it, there are plenty of sources to read.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another vote for key dates. I'd buy top grade examples, just 2-3 of any key date coin.
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desertgem's Avatar
United States
860 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2009  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add desertgem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

PCGS/CAC MS63RN 1909 SVDB Lincoln
PCGS/CAC AU58B 1914-D Lincoln

or for more like me

PCGS AU55 RB 1955/55 DDO.
a couple of slabbed MS-64 or 65,Red or RB 1972/72 Die #1
few MS-64-66 Red : 1960-D/D small/large Lincolns.

What many don't follow is that much of gold mining stocks was held by
hedge funds, and the prices dumped with the rest of the market. If a person
does due diligence on them, they will find that due to leverage many offer
a better chance than gold bullion for short term gains IMO.

Jim
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Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2009  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm leaning towards non-key date silver. Silver is low, IMHO, and it has numerous uses, besides barter and coinage, that sustain the market.

Platinum does have some allure for me, but at my level of investment I want something that Billy Bob understands.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19951 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2009  3:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem with physical silver is dealers want to pay you below spot to sell and charge you well above spot to buy. It takes a large rise in the price before you can come out ahead.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16829 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2009  04:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As wiser heads than mine have said, "The easiest way to make a small fortune in coins is to start off with a large one.". Investing in coins is generally not as good as some of the investment pundits would have you believe.

And of course, as a collector, I would much prefer that all the investors either went away and invested in something else, or hurried up and evolved into "real" collectors. Prices would then fall, and the coins we collectors would like to buy would become more affordable.

Be that as it may, my main suggestion for numismatic investment areas is: find a bandwagon that's already moving, and jump on it. Trying to get in on the ground floor with a "sleeper" investment, like new releases from the Mint, is really just gambling; there's nothing to stop such sleepers from staying comatose.

- The top-of-the-range key dates and "must haves". Collectors are the main deciders as to what's valuable and what's not, and collectors really want the key dates. I'm not sure what kind of high-grade key dates you can buy for "only" $5000, but buy whatever you can, in as high grade as you can.

- Old banknotes. Last I heard, prices for these were still good and getting better; here in Australia, anyway, quality historic paper currency is still going for crazy money.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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