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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,478 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1361 Posts |
Ok, so I've had this coin sitting around for a while, picked it up back a year or so ago when I was trying to cherry pick matte proof Lincoln cents for around 25 dollars. (I have cherry picked a 1909 and 1911 so far, for around 50 bucks total) I happened to yank this one out tonight, I'd passed it off as non proof due to the rims at the time. Immediately after pulling it out, I knew it was a proof...I own 1909 through 1913 and know what they look like quite well at this point. Never noticed the wiring on even the narrow rim parts...but the coin exhibits the luster and EDS die markers...of which there are very few. Anyways, I'll be submitting this to PCGS soon, hoping for my third matte proof cherrypick.   
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Moderator
 United States
15425 Posts |
I don't know enough about the subject of matte proof LWC to offer an informed opinion. I will say that is a sharply struck coin, so best of wishes with your TPG submittal.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
It's a really nice business strike in my honest opinion . Does not have that grainy matte look and I really don't see a wired rim all the way around . 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19152 Posts |
Will be interesting to see what comes back. Nice look.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I'll say AU-50. Lack of a matte finish and lack of sharply squared rims suggest this is not a proof. Rims like this are common on business strikes of this era.
Edited by Coinfrog 06/04/2021 6:27 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19949 Posts |
Not sure about the proof but it looks to have seen circulation.
55
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3644 Posts |
 I'm 50-50 here. There was only one set of proof dies for the 1910 Lincoln. I see 7 of the 8 obverse markers and 4 of the 7 reverse markers. The coin clearly has been circulated. That would explain the lack of the evident matte finish and less than full wire rim. I believe this was struck from the proof dies. The question is whether it was struck as a proof or was a business strike from the former proof dies. I know the idea of business strikes from the proof dies is disputed (hotly). That certainly occurred in other series. I simply do not know if it happened here. One obverse marker that may be a clue is the angled die gouge above the "N" of IN. That is a later die stage marker. If the proof dies were used for circulation strikes, one would expect that gouge to exist. It's worth submitting it. IMHO, it's either PR-53 or AU-53.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
And there you go folks , a total unknown . 
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1361 Posts |
Fortcollins, you truly are an asset to this forum, and the members here, thank you.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Please keep us informed if you submit it! I'm betting against a PR grade, but would love to know. Good luck!
Edited by Coinfrog 06/05/2021 09:12 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1361 Posts |
Having it in hand, it 100 percent exhibits matte proof luster, like I said, when I purchased it I didn't own any, having 5 in my possession at this point that are slabbed PR by PCGS, I spotted it immediately while going through my coins... but as always, gotta see what PCGS says.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Yes , we are not saying your dead wrong ,but just giving our opinions on what we feel it is . Hoping your correct . 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
fortcollins I was always under the impression there were two die sets used to strike the 1910 Lincoln proofs?
Kevin Flynn book lists two obverses and two reverse while Leonard Albrecht's booklet lists two obverses and one reverse for 1910 Matte Proofs
Len lists 2405 minted and Flynn says 4083 minted
My thoughts are this is an impaired or mishandled proof that will grade probably around PR53 or PR55
Hope you send it in and report back to us, I'm really interested in what PCGS says.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3644 Posts |
@westcoin, That's the big debate on the 1910 proofs. I've only seen one die pair for the unquestioned proofs. I've heard lots of theories over the years, but the 1910 is definitely an enigma. There are several possibilities:  Only one pair struck all proof coins  Only one pair struck all proof coins, but die polishing between strikings gave the impression of two die pairs  Multiple proof die pairs existed, but only one struck coins intended to be proofs. The other pair/pairs were used as business strike dies, and the early business strikes from those dies emulated proofs.  The official proofs were struck early, then the proof dies were used for business strikes. Demand necessitated additional proof strikes later in the year, and a second die pair was unofficially created to meet the demand.  This was also the era of mint officials "doing favors" for certain dealers and collectors. (The 1913 Liberty nickels and 1921 Morgan proofs are obvious examples.) Privately arranged proofs absolutely can't be ruled out. And on and on. There definitely seem to be far more early Lincoln proofs than official mintage figures would suggest. In short, nothing can be ruled out for this era. That said, I personally only see one die pair for 1910. This coin seems to match the markers on that die pair. Beyond that, it's the wild wild west coin era.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
I tend to go with my old friend Len Albrecht on them with 2 obverse dies he only lists one reverse. I haven't talked to him in ages, I saw him last I think at a Long Beach show or maybe it was at a TNA show.
I grew up going to his shop he had with partner Chuck Wishon in Aurora Colorado "Collector's Exchange." in fact I just stumbled across some coins I have from them still in their original holders, all mint set, single coins still in the mint plastic but cut down to fit into the flips, so no PVC on them! Most look incredible and the prices marked are to die for!
I'd love to sit down with Len again and pick his brain, see if he has newer thoughts on the Lincoln Matte proofs today. He really knew his stuff back then in the late 1980's so I imagine he is only smarter today, since he stayed in the business.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,478 |