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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,762 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21630 Posts |
That is MD. See how the original devices have been reduced in size and the "Doubling " appears shelf like, that is the tell tale sign of MD. On a DD, the devices would appear larger and the Doubling would be the same height.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
@JimmyD thanks, ya iv done some research on MD Vs DD and thought this was MD. My first find though. MD like die chips hold little to no premium correct? So an educational piece? I have another double I'm about to post or at least I think it is but not listed in the error list and on the P mint mark so super hard to see for me.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21630 Posts |
Quote: MD like die chips hold little to no premium correct? Correct
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
Thanks @JimmyD, I thought the P mint mark in my other post was DD but after looking at it longer then I should have had to I thinks it's another MD but a fairly big one since I didn't even need to zoom to see it. But I could be wrong I am super new to looking at doubling. This one is easy for me to look at and say MD.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
This is Die Deterioration Doubling, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 can all be found with this phenomena. When the dies get old they begin to wear out in an outward motion bleeding off into the rim, some examples look extremely convincing, even showing minor notching. I debunked them as doubled dies when I began finding them with progressions going from a normal date and the "doubling" getting larger and larger which a doubled die cannot do. Neat to look at, but if you keep your eyes peeled and search quarter boxes they are more of an annoyance then anything else as finding them becomes extremely frequent.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
@johnwayn, I know it's not a doubled die but MD I feel like what your describing is what I see on every 2001 dime where there is a mirror of the top of each surface bleeding all the way to the rim, which is not the case here. Can you post an image of what you are describing? Or is that the definition of MD?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
This isent Machine Doubling (MD) at all. What you are seeing is Die Deterioration Doubling, Die Deterioration happens over the lifespan of the working dies and when they start to break down and deteriorate they start to look doubled. Not an error or a variety, merely an old die that should have been changed quicker. 
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5590 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
Ahhh thank you for that, how can you tell the dif between DDD and MD?
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5590 Posts |
All I can say is study all the links that have been sent to you and visualize what one will look like. You have to understand how striking a coin actually works and what can/will happen if something is just a teeny bit off. Probably the best way to learn is to do archive searches on here for DDD, MD and doublings/repunches. There are literally 100's of examples with great photos attached, either by the OP's or the thread participants. It's not your equipment or your eyes; it's your understanding of what's what. It will do you no good to post common, within tolerance, pocket change and have someone tell you what it is. You need to get things straight in your head first before posting.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
@okiecoiner, no one can be a master over night at telling "what is what" I have no equipment. What you see is cell phone photos. Which I take alot of photos and looked through thousands of coins. I put aside anything that looks abnormal. The I look up close (with my phone) from that I out aside what I'm unsure of. Then each coin I study and research possible errors. I have spent dozens of hours reading about errors, maybe hundreds of hours. So I'd appreciate it if you acknowledge that. I'm not just posting every coin that's kind of weird, I'm learning. And you can see it through my posts. I'm not expecting to hit gold. But it's clear through all of my posts that I'm a learning numismatic. Once I get some actual gear my posts will improve but I'm 100% capped for extra expenses. I appreciate all of your posted but please do not talk to me like I ignore the links and info sent to me.
There are so many errors/not real errors that are hard to differentiate unless you have good gear. I'd say I'm doing pretty good considering not a single image iv posted or looked at myself has been with my cell phone. I have not touched a computer in years really other then the odd time I have to.
Main point is I appreciate all of your knowledge, and have real ALOT about errors. And still have more to read. I could spend the next 6months doing nothing but reading and learning about the hobby, or even go to school to learn. But I don't have the time it money for that. I don't ask that you respond to my posts and appreciate that you do. But please don't condescend. I work hard for the fact that iv taken on this hobby (and enjoy it) while working full time at the hospital and caring for my first child that was birth just over 1 year ago.
Thank you for all your knowledge everyone, and patients. I will continue to search with my phone and eyes and learn from what you all post. But I can't be better then what I'm capable of.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5590 Posts |
I would suggest that you get a good 8-10X loupe or a multiple lens loupe that will go to 15. You can see alot more with that than you can playing around with cameras and lighting. I'm not trying to hound you, only to suggest ways that you can improve and understand what you are looking at. I'm sorry if I am conveying anything else. The archives on here are some of the best reference materials that there are.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1186 Posts |
I have to agree with okiecoiner, his advice is as solid as they come and you shouldent feel offended by it, what okiecoiner is trying to say is this forum covers alot of subjects, this post you created being one of them. On the top left hand side of the screen where it says "Search this Forum" in the "Canadian Error & Variety" forum where this post has been created you can literally find hundreds of posts covering information regarding doubled dies, Die Deterioration and Machine Doubling. When you are researching and using Google for example, 9 times out of 10 you end up on the coin community forum, and this forum shows some of the best information you could possibly want. As for the difference between Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration Doubling. - Machine Doubling will reduce the size of the devices and happens during the strike of the coin when the obverse or reverse die nudges into the edges of the designs or lettering on its way back up from the strike due to vibration or shifting and is a common occurance, not an error or variety. - Die Deterioration Doubling happens when an obverse or reverse die has been used for a lot longer than it should have, over time dies begin to deteriorate and break apart, causing die chips, die cracks and the designs or letters begin to get larger and widen outward (kind of like bubble letters) the photo I supplied of the 2015 quarter is a perfect example, also not an error or variety. Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration Doubling can be dificult to determine at times if you dont have the correct equiptment. When it comes to doubled dies, a microscope or proper loupe is a must, there's really no way around it unless you have a high end digital camera laying around that takes close up macro shots.
Finding and discovering modern Canadian doubled die varieties since 2018. 2023 Recent Publications: Modern Canadian Doubled Die Varieties - First Edition PDF & Paperback https://www.mcddv.ca (website currently down for maintenance as of 08/01/2024)
Edited by JohnWayne007 08/07/2021 8:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
@okiecoiner, I don't feel hounded necessarily. It's just being told to research as if I'm not researching when I spend hours reading. I know I can't afford any equipment at the moment so I do the best I can with what I have at my disposal. If I find something that could be 2-3 different kinds of errors but I can't tell from my photos exactly what it is then I post it because even with my bad pictures a lot of you guys can just look and see exactly what it is without me needing to get a good 20× shot. I'm sure some of you can just look at a coin without any zoom and put it aside because you can see something that is "off" on the coin. I do this as well then I go through all the coins I put aside and get a better look. I have nothing but respect for you okiecoiner. And you as well @johnwayn007, I just would appreciate it if my growth since iv started the hobby is acknowledged. I don't need to be told over and over to research because I'm constantly doing so:p. I apologize for not being clear enough some times and thank you guys for sharing your time and knowledge to help me grow as a numismatic. 
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5590 Posts |
wrekkdd .... what king of computer operating system do you have. I have a digital blue with all the software that I can no longer use because I got a new computer. You have to be able to load discs into your computer to use the Digital Blue. It is a microscope that has 10X, 60X and 100X and I used to take great photos of my coins (or sections of coins). Every photo that I've ever put in my posts are from that microscope with its own lighting.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,762 |