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2021 Morgan And Peace Dollars. Classic Series Or Not?

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 Posted 08/12/2021  08:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good point jimbucks. If die variations/errors are found and they are given VAM numbers that would solidify them as continuations.
Edited by livingwater
08/12/2021 08:47 am
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msl2196's Avatar
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124 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2021  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add msl2196 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't really consider them a continuation. They aren't really a coin. A coin is produced with the intent that it will circulate as money. These are produced with the intent to separate a collector from his money.

Of course you could say that the original Morgan and Peace dollars weren't intended to circulate either. They were made to back silver certificates, and the paper then circulated as money.


...and I think you could say the same thing about half dollars and any other NIFC coinage, but those are clearly coins.

Personally, I lean in favor of continuation. They're the same diameter, same design (even if minted using different dies/technologies), and same denomination. And though the metal composition is different, so is the U.S. Government's stance on silver, in general. Since the first part of the series, we're no longer on the gold standard, nor are silver certificates in play. A continuation need not necessarily maintain the same composition as the government's stance on metals shifts--in the same way that 90% Kennedy halves, 40% Kennedy halves, and clad Kennedy halves are still generally considered to be the same set (of Kennedy halves) and copper cents and zinc cents are still generally considered to be the same set (of Lincoln cents).

One other precedent here is the Morgan set's own (already existing) gap between 1904 and 1921, in which nearly everyone considers the 1921 to be part of the set.

I would imagine that another issue of these in 2022 would confirm a continuation in the minds of most collectors (though I don't think it's necessary for there to be a continuation, either, given the one-year continuation that already happened in 1921).

I will add one exception, however: I do not consider the CC and O Morgans to be continuations, since they weren't actually minted in Carson City or New Orleans.
Edited by msl2196
08/12/2021 09:46 am
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msl2196's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add msl2196 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will add one more thing, here. Since the 2021 set is (enormously) easy to get relative to a set of classic Morgans, having a complete set of classic Morgans will clearly remain the gold standard for collections. With that said, even though one can make that set a complete set for another $1,000 or so, I don't think it will be technically complete until the collector actually does. In practice, however, it won't actually matter, as pretty much anyone can get the new Morgans--yet getting a set of old Morgans is a Sisyphean task at best.

In other words, if I was holding a complete set of Morgans as of 2020 , I wouldn't be particularly worried about this question...
Edited by msl2196
08/12/2021 09:40 am
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 Posted 08/12/2021  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With respect to composition, I don't think that is a reason to invalidate a continuation of the series. The Indian cent changed composition of its circulation strikes, as did the Kennedy half dollar, Washington quarter, Lincoln Cent, Jefferson nickel and Roosevelt dime as just a few examples.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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They are still legal tender. It would be foolish but one could use them as dollars to buy things.
This is true an important to remember. "NCLT" (Non-Circulating Legal Tender) is still legal tender. These are still coins.


Quote:
These are, without question, modern replica pieces.
I disagree with calling them replicas because the negative connotations (forgery, counterfeit) cannot be avoided.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Don't forget that the 1921 Morgan dollars were struck from different dies than pre 1921 Morgan dollars.
Not just the dies, the master die had to be created from scratch. All original materials were discarded in 1910.


Quote:
With respect to composition, I don't think that is a reason to invalidate a continuation of the series. The Indian cent changed composition of its circulation strikes, as did the Kennedy half dollar, Washington quarter, Lincoln Cent, Jefferson nickel and Roosevelt dime as just a few examples.
Excellent points.



For what it worth, we all know how Wikipedia is the end-all, be-all...
Quote:
The Morgan dollar is a United States dollar coin minted from 1878 to 1904, in 1921, and as a special non-circulating coin in 2021.

Quote:
The Peace dollar is a United States dollar coin minted from 1921 to 1928, in 1934 and 1935, and as a commemorative in 2021.
But of course, your collection, your rules.
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muddler's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same size and design so to me an addition to the sets. I got a "D" Morgan to put into my date set. It will go into my Mint mark hole and serve as the new date too without replacing the album. This strategy could go for the "S" and "P" Morgan's too. As for the Peace $ I'm at a loss as to how to incorporate it into my album.
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bret to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The answer might just depend on when you're alive. Right now most people might view them as part of a different series, but 300 years from now will people view it as part of the same series? I'd bet that people would view them as part of the same series.

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EDM's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EDM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Kenndy Half Dollar hasn't been made for circulation for 18 years now, yet we still collect them and put them in our albums. The same for all "S" mint coins since the 1970's, not made for circulation, yet we insist on albums which hold the "S" coins. This argument is not consistent. Therefore they can be considered a continuation of the old series.
Edited by EDM
08/12/2021 11:53 am
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The answer might just depend on when you're alive. Right now most people might view them as part of a different series, but 300 years from now will people view it as part of the same series? I'd bet that people would view them as part of the same series.
True. Time changes our perspectives. Just like our opinions on classic designs are more favourable than those of many who were around when they circulated.
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 Posted 08/12/2021  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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The Kenndy Half Dollar hasn't been made for circulation for 18 years now, yet we still collect them and put them in our albums.
Yes, we do, and our albums are heavy! I have my set split into multiple four-page Dansco albums (my original bout in 1984 Kennedy half dollar Dansco only has four pages, hence the precedent). I cannot imagine those with an eight or nine page Dansco full of half dollars!

But I digress... this is about the Morgan and Peace dollars.
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psuman08's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tend to agree with EDM. I could be convinced however that they are just commeratives. Don't forget several commerative series went multiple years and mints. I liked the issues this year and will be sucked in next year if they are proof or enhanced or ?
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I liked the issues this year and will be sucked in next year if they are proof or enhanced or ?
Next year? Next year!?
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psuman08's Avatar
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 Posted 08/12/2021  12:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Next year? Next year!?


One certainty is I will not be spending nearly as much $ with the US Mint next year.
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