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1958-D RPM?

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gettingbrowned's Avatar
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259 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2009  07:36 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add gettingbrowned to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm fairly sure this is a RPM due to the splits in the serifs but I'm not totally sure

1958-D-RPM?
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coppercoins's Avatar
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7629 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2009  08:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it is an RPM.
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tepritts's Avatar
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306 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2009  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tepritts to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a really nice picture. What magnification are you using for the photo? Also, what lighting are you using? Congrats on this nice find.

Terrell
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gettingbrowned's Avatar
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259 Posts
 Posted 01/29/2009  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gettingbrowned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This photo was taken at 200x magnification using a toy called the "EyeClops BioniCam". It was on clearance at Wal-mart a couple months ago for $50. It offers 100x, 200x, and 400x magnification. When viewing coins the lighting is only sufficient for the 100x and just barely so for 200x.

edit: picture was taken with 200x mag not 100x
Edited by gettingbrowned
01/29/2009 12:53 pm
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ziggy9's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2009  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ziggy9 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In order to help in identifying any rpm we would need a photo like the one you posted but also need one that includes the date so we can use the location in relation to the date as an identifying point.

Richard
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gettingbrowned's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2009  12:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gettingbrowned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oh.. here you go! the viewfinder isn't big enough to include the one.. I hope this is good enough to help identify what rpm it is.

thanks


1958-D-RPM?
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rockdude's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2009  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rockdude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks just like a 1958D-1MM-005 should look. Nice find.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2009  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wrong location for 1958D-1MM-005. 005 is next to the 9 in the date.
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rockdude's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2009  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rockdude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well that's a first (me being wrong) How it being a 1958D-1MM-003?
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 01/29/2009  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Location is closer for 003, but this is a tilted RPM and 003 is a West. From a different die also. Looks closer to this one:
http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/dies...ie_state=mds
But the spread of the tilting looks a little different. The image of the RPM doesn't show enough of the digits to do an overlay. But it may be slightly North compared to the image posted?
Edited by coop
01/29/2009 7:49 pm
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gettingbrowned's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2009  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gettingbrowned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"The image of the RPM doesn't show enough of the digits to do an overlay."

Do I need to take a picture of the whole coin for determination. I know it's not valuable or anything... but for curiosity's sake I guess I would like to know.
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coppercoins's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2009  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been through the photo comparison stage of attributing this coin and cannot find anything listed that matches. Just for info sake, there are a number of steps to this process, all are necessary, and all must check out...

1. Spread - the RPM must have the same spread as the one listed. This coin is a D/D Rotated CCW. This coin does not have the same spread as 1958D-1MM-005 (which is much more obvious than this one), nor 1958D-1MM-003 (which has a completely different spread - looks nothing like this one).
2. Depth of punch - the width and perceptual depth of the letter will be the same on all coins minted by a given die. The cent in this thread has a medium depth punching similar to 1958D-1MM-042 or 1958D-1MM-044. By comparison, 1958D-1MM-003 has a very deep punching. No way these match.
3. Mintmark location - The exact location of the mintmark in relation to the date and other design elements must match exactly. Mintmarks do not move around on the die after they are punched. 1958D-1MM-005 is far closer to the date than this coin - an obvious no-match. 1958D-1MM-042 and 1958D-1MM-044 are somewhat closer, but 1958D-1MM-042 doesn't have the same spread. 1958D-1MM-044 could possibly have the same spread, but because the coin on the site is later die state, it could have been misattributed as tilted. This does happen frequently with new dies, because we can only determine what we can see, and sometimes discovery coins aren't the best tools to use. So we have a possible, 1958D-1MM-044. Nothing else in the other 43 listed dies works.
4. Die Markers - Only after everything else matches up, it's time to start looking for the small bits of damage placed on the die (intentionally or unintentionally) that repeat from coin to coin. This is the 'fingerprint' of the die, and only wears down with die use. Things such as die scratches, clash marks, flow lines, and gouges are markers that can and sometimes do wear off and become indistinguishable with die use. Things such as die chips, breaks, cracks, and heavy gouges often stick with the die from the time they happen until the die's eventual retirement. Thing is, if your coin was struck before a die crack happened, other coins from the same die will have the die crack, but yours will not.

Markers tell a story - every die has markers to some degree, even if it's as minor as patterns in the flow lines. The key, and the trick, is to find at least one marker that definitely matches one coin to another. This is how we determine a specific coin to be minted by one specific die.

So...it's not throwing a dart at a board at something close, and it's not guess work. It's detective work, looking at clues, looking at evidence, and finding concrete answers based on exactly what's there. No guessing about it.
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gettingbrowned's Avatar
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 Posted 02/02/2009  03:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gettingbrowned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all that info, Chuck!

I'm gonna check out the die markers in the morning when I get home from work (at "lunch" right now) and see if anything matches.

Would more photos help you determine which RPM it is? I can take pictures with a regular camera and not with the microscope if that helps.

-Chris
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coppercoins's Avatar
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 Posted 02/02/2009  09:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No...seeing the coin would help. I don't like trying to use photos to attribute a coin.
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gettingbrowned's Avatar
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259 Posts
 Posted 02/02/2009  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gettingbrowned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand...

thanks for your help!
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