Counterfeits Of Cast Silver Sud - Any Pictures?

Not my area of expertise, but here is a link to the numista page for a real 2 Reales from Oaxaca (insurgent coinage). My thought is that if your specimen is different from a real one, then yours is fake. Matching your fake up to one of a potential universe of fakes seems much more difficult.


https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces28701.html

Essentially, this. The usual mid-century(?) pieces have a certain look to them... and many seem to be from the same die pair. They are quite a bit better than the very crude piece you initially posted and the BBB piece you linked to.

The usual suspect is an 1813 piece with "pretty good" surfaces - though if you look at nicely toned, pedigreed pieces... you can kind of get a feel for the difference.

I would also suggest looking at the minor denoms. to get a feel for the surfaces of genuine pieces should look like.

Some pics I had saved from years back when we were discussing these occasionally... they don't seem to show nearly as much on ebay now. I guess collectors are holding them (often assuming they are genuine). Had marked a few spots to note back then... not going to fully refresh myself right now...

20._g I would think is beyond any reasonable tolerance - though who knows, perhaps not impossible considering the period. And yes, that upcoming Aureo Calico piece is from the same "die" pair. I would view any one from these "dies" as likely fake until convinced otherwise. And note, I'm sure there are examples from that "die pair" where the weight is what it should be.

As one data point, Riddell's 1846 Monograph... shows a piece which we can presume is "genuine". Weight was 26.45g, 88% fine:


Here's an old pedigree piece - from the Huntington collection - weighing just over 26g:


You can peruse some other examples... as you can see, a wide variety of weights and surface textures. Like with any series, the more you look at, the better a feel you'll have.

https://www.acsearch.info/search.ht...=1&es=1&ot=1¤cy=usd&order=1

EDIT - Refreshing myself on these a bit here... there is an 1814-dated fake from the same die pair shown above (just with the 3 changed to 4). A number of examples are seen in Spain auction house archives.

EDIT 2 - Same fake exists with the 1812 date, as well!!

Not sure what the question was, but the first coin shown is fake to the casual observer.

Obverse:

That 1812 immediately above is another of the lesser quality replicas, fakes, whatever... again, really shouldn't fool anyone.

The 1811 - oooh, that indeed appears to be another specimen of the fake discussed above, last digit altered to "1". Looking through Worthpoint archives, I see one other 1811 example (matching diagnostics) explicitly stated to be a modern fake (shown below).

HA has been contacted. They are usually very good about taking care of things like this...

Goes to show this is a tough series to judge. Knowledge is power here - familiarity w/this fake, also in this case realizing that 1811 is a VERY tough date (NO other cast silver in searchable online auct. archives)

Was an ebay listing:
worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1811-mexico-reales-sud-cast-silver-1734174890

Seller is a border town Mexican guy who's been on ebay for a number of years.

Thought I would post a few pieces I had been following lately to see if anyone else had any thoughts. The first two were on ebay a couple of months ago - looked like a "genuine" piece similar to the Huntington coin (sold for $3600), and then what seemed to be a clearly counterfeit 1812 that NGC had slabbed (sold for $1820). The last one was from last night's Stack's NYINC session - again seemed to have similar characteristics to the Huntington coin but with a date of 1812. I bid on it but someone else seemed to want it pretty bad - final result was $4080!