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1864 2 Cent Piece With Rotated Reverse

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United States
10 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2022  11:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Crappie whisper to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Last one tonight. Rotated about 45 deg.
Is it worth anything? Worth getting graded?

1864-2-Cent-Piece-With-Rotated-Reverse
1864-2-Cent-Piece-With-Rotated-Reverse

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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2022  04:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2022  05:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF

Having owned a dozen or more of these rotated 1864's over the years, to my experience, they're fairly common; and, but for mint state specimens, not worth slabbing. Among the ones I've owned were a few with a 180 degree medal rotation. A less experienced collector is more likely to pay a premium for curiosity's sake and/or having it as a conversation piece.

Note that many 1864 copper Indian cents can be found with rotated dies. While this is a minor form of error, rotated dies on higher denomination coins can demand a significant premium.

Happy hunting!
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2022  05:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
According to all my years of research there are 113 different die varieties of 1864 out of them there are 19 that are always found with varying degrees of die rotation, possibly more, but 19 that always show at least more than 10 degrees of rotation. I haven't put into my database the angle of rotation yet but that's something I really should look into adding to my data.

I don't pay any premium for a rotated die unless it is of course one of the tougher die marriages I haven't found to won yet.I know people do ask for a premium on many of them, especially the slabbed ones with the rotation listed on the label. I just think there are enough of them out there the premium should not be a big factor in the price maybe adding up to 10% possibly. I think those that ask huge premiums are nuts, but hey, anyone can ask whatever amount they want, it's up to the buyer to accept the price, and I don't.

Case in point, I've seen a slabbed MS64RB common variety only difference is the NGC label said rotated reverse and the seller wanted $695.00 for it, that coin would be fairly priced at $325.00 to $425.00 as the eye appeal was really nice and it had almost no carbon fly specks as so many do. The dealer thought the rotated reverse was worth almost doubling the price. But the reality in major auction archives, show he was asking way too much. He may get that price, just not from me or others that know the series.

There are coin series where any rotation over 10% is a big deal, Morgan and Peace dollars come to mind right off the bat. I'd say a doubling or more in price maybe okay, as long as the coin isn't a condition census coin.

Rotated coins are also tougher errors as the only way to see and appreciate them is to have a mirror display or the coin in hand, it is not an error like a clipped planchet, or off center strike that is plainly obvious from one single sided view.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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United States
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 Posted 10/23/2022  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crappie whisper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great info guys! I'm new and learning, and your input is valuable to me.
Thanks.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 10/23/2022  11:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm guessing it's not worth grading.



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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2022  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm guessing it's not worth grading.


Agreed here is a nice looking example of a Two Cent coin and I don't think this one is worth the money to get graded myself.

1864-2-Cent-Piece-With-Rotated-Reverse

I grade that one around AU55/58 and very original no cleaning but I know it's been in some acetone (I did that). I'd say the coin needs to reach well above $500 for me to consider having it graded, or else be a condition census coin or have some sort of value beyond a normal example in a weird variety or error. Then again I've been in the coin business previously as a dealer and been collecting for around 40 years now, I've looked at a LOT of coins, and even worked with some grading companies in the past (20 years ago), and am fairly confident in my ability to grade, it's the counterfeits that scare me now days.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
10/24/2022 5:10 pm
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