The Non Collectible (Nc) Varieties Of Large Cents

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 13 / Views: 2,570
CarrsCoins Pillar of the Community United States 756 Posts	Posted 10/23/2022 10:46 pm Large cent die varieties are a long and winding road. one of the more challenging branches one can go down is the Non Collectible varieties. while there are a number of people who have completed the Sheldon set (there are currently 2 complete sets that I know of) a complete large cent variety set has never been achieved. when William Sheldon published his seminal work on 1793-1814 large cent varieties, penny whimsey, he was able to identify 295 different die marriages. he got most of the die marriages, but he did not find everything. he also made a rather significant clerical blunder. the first coin (1793 Ameri. chain cent) was called the S-1. then next the S-2. when he went to 1794 he continued the numbers. 1794 starts with the S-17. 1795 starts with the S-73. and so on till you get to 294 and 295 in 1814. when a 296th variety was discovered it presented a problem. should it be s-296? do we re-number everything? what do we do? the solution ended up being rather elegant. there are only 295 Sheldon varieties. every variety discovered after the original 295 is given an NC designation. NC stands for Not Collectible. Newcomb, Overton and others learned from this mistake and created year specific variety designations. so you can have an O-101 in any year of bust half or a N-2 in any middle date large cent year but you can only have S-219 in 1801. when a new variety is added to middle date large cents they just stick it at the end of that year. All of the NC varieties are R-5 (31-75 examples) or rarer. there are 53 NC varieties today. i am slowly and in a low priority kind of way working on that set. I currently have 1797 NC-3, 1801 NC-1, 1801 NC-3, 1802 NC-1, 1802 NC-2 and 1803 NC-1. without further ado here are my Non Collectible Large Cent Varieties: 1797 NC-3 R-6- (25-30 known to exist) finest known is an EAC 10 scudzy in the ANS collection close date / highest leaf to the right of the last s in states. 1801 NC-1 R-6 (19-24 copies) finest known is 63+. there is a 35. everything else is 15 or worse. close date w/ pointed 1 / heavy incusations at staTES OF 1801 NC-3 R-6+ (13-18 copies) Finest known is a VG8 Blunt 1s / Fraction 000, blunt stems 1802 NC-1 R-5+ (31-45 Coins) finest is a 45 in the ANS, then 35 then its all 15 or worse. Bisecting obverse die crack 1802 NC-2 R-6 (19-24 Coins) 35, 20, 10 and below 8 low and leaning right // ME joined at feet 1803 NC-1 R-5+ (31-45 Coins) the finest is a 45 in the ANS. everything else is fine or worse. 18 close, 1 far from hair, 3 far from drapery / widest denominator. i plan to liberate the slabbed coins but havent done so yet. if you happen to own any NC large cents I would love to see them! Edited by CarrsCoins 10/23/2022 10:53 pm Report this Post to the Staff

SpeedDemonND Valued Member United States 357 Posts	Posted 10/23/2022 11:19 pm Seems like quite the project! Good luck with it and keep us posted. Report this Post to the Staff
numismatic student Bedrock of the Community United States 11880 Posts	Posted 10/23/2022 11:32 pm This is completely wild. I'm always amazed at how researchers, OP among them, are able to latch onto barely visible details to definitively discern a wholly distinct new variety. I'm hardly able to see it on mint state coins. Each of these 53 varieties was unknown when Sheldon was doing this research. We truly stand on the shoulders of giants as we engage in our hobby. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com Report this Post to the Staff
CarrsCoins Pillar of the Community United States 756 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 01:27 am we sure do stand on the shoulder of giants. the bits of history associated with the hobby is one of my favorite things to collect. I'm a sucker for a good bit of provenance. I think sometimes about how many brilliant people have spent time on all the different parts of numismatics. its quite impressive. i dont anticipate fast progress on this part of my set. even in filler/cull conditions the most common NC cents are several hundred dollars. the rare or "high" grade ones command 5 to 6 figures. some of them only come around once or twice in a lifetime. Report this Post to the Staff
sel_69l Bedrock of the Community Australia 21786 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 03:14 am I note that Sheldon used die linking to identify all of the die varieties he was able to find. Museums also use die linking studies as one of the tools to arrange the date order of ancient coins within a major type group. This information can be used by archaeologists to help determine other non coins items, that may be found in association with the coins. Report this Post to the Staff
GERMANICVS Pillar of the Community Germany 1849 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 05:03 am Very nice! quite the collection of very rare coins. NC's are difficult. (I don't have a single one in my collection). I was not aware that R-5+ coins also qualify as NC's? I thought R-6 and up. Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5172 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 05:42 am Quote: I was not aware that R-5+ coins also qualify as NC's? I thought R-6 and up. Count me in as also assuming that NC meant what it said - i.e. that the variety is too rare to be collectable. Mind you I'd be hard-pressed to think of a coin with 45 (or even 75) known examples as collectable either. I wonder what's the rarest variety with a S (not NC) number. Is there any variety that has only 3 or 4 known coins, one of them listed by Sheldon? Did any S varieties get reclassified to NC to avoid being an unobtainable hole in Sheldon sets? Report this Post to the Staff
GERMANICVS Pillar of the Community Germany 1849 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 09:01 am Quote: I wonder what's the rarest variety with a S (not NC) number. Is there any variety that has only 3 or 4 known coins, one of them listed by Sheldon? Did any S varieties get reclassified to NC to avoid being an unobtainable hole in Sheldon sets? I believe R-6+ is the highest NON-NC (regular) rarity rating. For example, 1794 S-37 is listed by CQR (2011) as R-6+ 1794 S-39 is an R-6 and S-52 is an R-6-. (note this may have changed since). Report this Post to the Staff
thecoinguy1964 Pillar of the Community United States 1300 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 09:26 am Trying to discover all the different Large cent varieties, is mind boggling. The most difficult set to put together in a Dansco album, with all the different varieties. Report this Post to the Staff
Phil310 Pillar of the Community United States 1101 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 11:33 am Congratulations on having 6 NC's! Did you cherrypick any of those? Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 187582 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 11:46 am Fascinating! Thank you for sharing and good luck! Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
CarrsCoins Pillar of the Community United States 756 Posts	Posted 10/24/2022 12:39 pm Quote: I was not aware that R-5+ coins also qualify as NC's? I thought R-6 and up. this is sort of true and something I should have touched on. the NC designation isn't based on rarity. it is based on when the variety was first catalogued. once an NC always an NC, once a sheldon always a sheldon. this is why the jefferson head is still included in the set despite not being a mint product. if sheldon had it listed its a sheldon cent. however, and this part is a bit strange, there are actually 2 designations of NC. 1-30 coppies is NC for Not Collectible. 31+ copies is NC (in italics) for Now Collectible. the italics designation doesn't get talked about much because honestly there are like 3 people who collect NCs. we could hold an NC collectors club meeting in a phone booth. Quote: I wonder what's the rarest variety with a S (not NC) number. Is there any variety that has only 3 or 4 known coins, one of them listed by Sheldon? Did any S varieties get reclassified to NC to avoid being an unobtainable hole in Sheldon sets? there are a number of R-7 sheldon varieties. 1793 S-15 has 13 known. 1795 S-79 reeded edge has 9 known, 1797 S-121a has 12 reported in the book but there are at least 13. 1801 s-217 is a 6+ with maybe 20 known. S-79 is usually regarded as the most difficult sheldon coin to acquire. on the flip side I think the rarity estimate for the 1802 nc1 and 1803 nc1 are way too high. the 1802 nc-1 in particular just keeps showing up. the bisecting die crack diagnostic is a poor descriptor. most examples are ealry die states before the dies cracked. it wouldnt surprise me to see it updated to an R-4 at some point. Quote: Congratulations on having 6 NC's! Did you cherrypick any of those? i have not. the 1797 was cherry picked by my father. he got it for $25 in the late 90s at the local coin show. he went back, told the dealer and tried to give him some extra money. The dealer refused the money and congratulated him on his great find. Quote: Trying to discover all the different Large cent varieties, is mind boggling. The most difficult set to put together in a Dansco album, with all the different varieties. thats no joke. just doing the date run is a serious accomplishment. I dont have all the dates. I dont have many of the braided hair coins. I dont have all the head styles either. I'm currently missing wreath, 93 cap, 94 head of 93 cap. I have owned a full date run and each of those types in the past, but I dont have them today. Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 11/17/2022 08:33 am When Sheldon was writing Early American Cents, which was the precursor to Penny Whimsy, he assigned the NC designation to any variety that had three or few specimens known in collectors hands. The some of the NC's were known to exist at the same time the 295 were being cataloged. New varieties discover after Early American Cents was published of course were listed as NC's as well. The NC standing for Not Collectible. As more specimens of those varieties were discovered the NC would change to NC and mean Now Collectible. But since the both use the same initials. they are normally just considered as a single group. There IS one person who has a complete set of all the varieties both S number and all the NC's. It used to be that the most complete set was Dan Holmes collection which had everything except the Unique 1793 NC-5 which was in the ANS collection. But sometime between August of 2020 and August of 2021 a second piece turned up and the Number 1 set in The Score (Early Date Collection Census) acquired it and the last couple NC's he needed to finish the complete set. Having a rarity greater than R-5+ does NOT make a coin an NC. ALL of the NC's started as R-8 or R-7+. Their lower rarities today come from new examples being discovered. Those Sheldon numbered coins with R-5+ or higher today typically started in the R7- to R-6 range and have come down over the years. While I mainly collect the Sheldon numbered varieties (have 265 of them) I have managed to pick up 9 NC's along the way. When I first started collecting the Early Dates I never thought I would own an NC. I have 1795 N-3, 1796 NC-1, 1796 NC-4, 1797 NC-1, 1800 NC-3, 1801 NC-2, 1802 NC-1, 1802 NC-2, and 1803 NC-1. I agree the rarity on the 1803 NC-3 is probably a little overrated and is probably an R-5, maybe even 5-. It is kind of a toss up as to which is the most common NC, either 1796 NC-4 or 1803 NC-1. Report this Post to the Staff
CarrsCoins Pillar of the Community United States 756 Posts	Posted 11/17/2022 11:50 am @ conder101 i would love to see pictures of your NCs if you are willing to share and have the time. i did not know that about that top set! that is amazing. ill have to congratulate him the next time I see him! what an accomplishment! thank you for clarifying the time frame on the NC origin. for those who dont know The Score is a large cent collection ranking. members submit the lists of coins they own and the conditions of those coins. collections are scored based on completion % and on grade. its fun. lets you build rivalries and friendships. it also lets you know who wants the old coin when you upgrade to a nicer one. im currently working on getting my set compiled in a way to be submitted to the score. I inherited a bunch of coins from my dad and I'm working through grading and attribution on all of them. I'm also regrading and attributing my own coins at the same time. I should have that done by the end of the year. a couple people are going to move down the list Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 13 / Views: 2,570

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: US Coins and Currency Forums Forum: US Classic and Colonial Coins

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

View Last 100 New Topics

View Last 100 Active Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.36 seconds to rattle this change.