Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!300,000 items to help build your collection! Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1796 Draped Bust Large Cent S-92 Reverse Of 1795

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 1,585Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
CarrsCoins's Avatar
United States
756 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2022  3:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
here is an interesting coin for grading opinions. what do you think this coin grades? how far down the grading scale do you have to go to justify buying this problem coin over an average lower grade piece or a choice lower grade coin? ill post my thoughts in a day or two.

1796-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent-S-92-Reverse-Of-1795
1796-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent-S-92-Reverse-Of-1795
Pillar of the Community
mrwhatisit's Avatar
United States
2953 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2022  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this makes it into the AU range. I would snag more of details coins of our early era in nice shape like this one since they would be easier on the budget. This coin is to me not much of a problem coin at that.
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2022  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The brighter green areas on the reverse indicate an active chemical process and merit immediate conservation to arrest any further deterioration of the planchet.

I have a Connecticut copper struck over a Nova Constellatio that had the same issue, but it's quite insidious and can start up again even after treatment

Gradewise VF35 net VG10 (?), scratches in front of bust and across neck above drapery, areas of roughness/porosity, a few pits from old corrosion

You would know far more than I would if the obverse has been monkeyed with otherwise (smoothed?)

I would rather have an average to choice lower grade example than a higher grade sharpness example with issues since this is not a high R or NC variety
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2333 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2022  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With an est of only 500 in all grades (per PCGS)
I will say AU-details
Any further from me...and I'd be talking out my reverse.
Looking fwd to your follow-up!
smat
Pillar of the Community
GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2022  01:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a nice example of S-92, R-3. It has nice details and is well struck with nice color.

Were it only problem free!

My details grade is EF40.
Accounting for the problems on obverse and reverse, namely pitting and scratches I would net it at VG10 to F12.

Therefore, I would prefer this coin over an EAC VG10 to F12 example.

Pillar of the Community
jacrispies's Avatar
United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2022  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Gradewise VF35 net VG10 (?)

I was thinking the same thing, VF net VG. Minor corrosion I can deal with, but the scratch corrosion combo would not be a keeper for me as a non-variety collector.

But still a very nice coin, considering it is the first die marriage of the draped bust series!
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
Moderator
Learn More...
nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15391 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2022  05:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Topics such as this are well out of my expertise - but I do enjoy reading the comments and slowly learning.
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18635 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2022  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
XF details

regarding value. its in the eye of the beholder and what someone would pay. due to its value even in lower grades I would not purchase it. its not a bad looking coin but if I was paying over $1k for a coin I agree with paralyse


Quote:
I would rather have an average to choice lower grade example than a higher grade sharpness example with issues since this is not a high R or NC variety


Bedrock of the Community
Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2022  10:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say EF/AU details, not one I would enjoy owning.
Pillar of the Community
CarrsCoins's Avatar
United States
756 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2022  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
this variety is an R-3. thats as common as it gets for a 1796 draped bust cent. they are all tough coins.

i grade it eac 35 net 8. and think it would slab at AU details.

i love showing this coin around for grading opinions. people are all over the place on this one. some have it at au. some wouldnt buy it at any price. I have had a lot of people look at this coin. the EAC club consensus is vf35 net f12. that is also what dealer Tom Reynolds graded it on his envelope which is included.

i would never have bought this coin. the price point I would want to get into it at would be an insult to any competent seller. they can get more from someone else. I cant stand the scratches on the obverse and the hamfisted attempt at removing the reverse problems really marred up the fields. I dont mind the pits on the obverse too much. they are mostly out of the primary area of focus so despite being significant I dont find them all that visually detracting. to me the pit in the hair is worse than the ones in the field.

now that ive beat it up, lets talk about what it has going for it. cause WOW. if this coin werent damaged it would be amazing. the strike is phenomenal. the color is stunning. the surfaces appear original and somehow avoided getting mucked with too badly despite someone trying to dig the corrosion out of the coin with a jackhammer.

i inherited this coin from from my fathers collection. ill keep it forever and I doubt I will ever upgrade that slot. sentimentality is more important to me than having a choice coin. its a recurring issue within the collection. a substantial part of my large cent set was acquired by/with my father. we did coins together for a lot of years. Dad liked high grade problem coins. I prefer choice coins.

while there are a fair number of nice 1796 draped bust cents you mostly dont see them change hands. most of the ones that you do see are S-119s from the nichols hoard.

here are some price points for reference:

PCGS - vg8 - $750, f12 - $1,350, vf30 - $5,000, au50 - $17,500
penny prices vg8 - $900, f12 - $1,350, vf30 - $6,000, au50 $15,000

i didnt see any recent sale data for AU details but in the last 2 years PCGS XF details 96 rev of 95 cents have sold for $5,040, $1,200, $1,440, $960, $990, $468.

here is the $5k coin
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...cleaned-PCGS

here is the $1,440 coin
https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cent...ption-071515

here is the $468 coin
https://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cent...ption-071515

here is a decent vf20 you can buy today
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2656102650...9SR7THrouCYQ

this coin is the embodiment of "its only worth what the buyer is willing to pay for it".
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2333 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2022  05:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smat45 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the follow up...I like listening to experience talk.
That Stack's EF-Details is a beauty! I would have thought AU-details...?
smat
Edited by smat45
10/26/2022 05:17 am
Bedrock of the Community
IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36558 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2022  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EF-40 details, environmental damage/scratched.
Pillar of the Community
CarrsCoins's Avatar
United States
756 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2022  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeah that stacks coin is nice. I wont be surprised if it gets sold again in a strait graded holder.

one of the reasons I like this coin is because it does a nice job of demonstrating the limitations of the current slab grading standards. all of those reference coins received the same grade from the same grading company. they arent in the same state of preservation. they arent worth the same. why do they grade the same? to put it another way - I know more or less what a PCGS XF45 draped bust cent will look like. I can buy it sight unseen. its acceptable most of the time. I have absolutely no idea what a PCGS XF Details draped bust cent will look like. if someone calls me up and says "i have a nice 1796 draped bust in a PCGS XF details holder, what will you give me for it?" how can I possibly answer that question?
Edited by CarrsCoins
10/26/2022 12:22 pm
Pillar of the Community
Slider23's Avatar
United States
4468 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2022  12:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for posting. I was at XF Details. My EAC would have been VF30, but I did not do the net grade before I saw your comments.
Pillar of the Community
CarrsCoins's Avatar
United States
756 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2022  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i think xf details is completely reasonable on this coin. I called it au but as my father always told me "ownership is worth at least one grade point"
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2022  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I wasn't too far off Tom @ 35/10, at least, maybe I do get lucky sometimes :P

Still, the fact that it's a family heirloom means I wouldn't care about the appearance, I still try to keep the few coins I got from my dad.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
  Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 1,585Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.42 seconds to rattle this change. Forums