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China Tai Ching Ti Kuo Copper Coin - Is It Brass? (Id: Likely Brass Contemporary Counterfeit)

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Brummagem's Avatar
United States
128 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  12:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Brummagem to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi - I am not too well versed in these Chinese coins but I have seen a few before and I have never seen one that looks like this. I originally thought it was struck in brass but the more I look at it I wonder if it could be gold-? I did a ring test and it has a beautiful sound, does not stick at all to a strong magnet and I even rubbed the edge on some unglazed ceramic and it left a golden mark.

But I am fully prepared for it to be brass! I am assuming it would have to be a very weird error strike for it to be gold, since it does say right on it that it is a copper coin. But it is not copper regardless.

It is thinner than the other 10 Cash copper coins I have come across. It is about 29mm & 6.2g.
China-Tai-Ching-Ti-Kuo-Copper-Coin----Is-It-Brass?-Id:-Likely-Brass-Contemporary-Counterfeit
China-Tai-Ching-Ti-Kuo-Copper-Coin----Is-It-Brass?-Id:-Likely-Brass-Contemporary-Counterfeit
China-Tai-Ching-Ti-Kuo-Copper-Coin----Is-It-Brass?-Id:-Likely-Brass-Contemporary-Counterfeit
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  03:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Brass, but
from a numismatic perspective, it appears to be a broadstruck, error coin, and definitely a keeper in any collection.

Some Chinese Mints of this period were not too fussy about what copper alloy (bronze or brass), from which these coins were struck.
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Brummagem's Avatar
United States
128 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brummagem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks! I will keep keep it :) It must have a lot of zinc in it b/c it is certainly bright in color. I'm sure it has an interesting story behind it....

I've been trying to narrow down the variety. I haven't been able to find a match to the obverse die.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16808 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2023  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it's brass. Gold doesn't turn black like that, but brass does.

Identifying the province of issue will be tricky, since the province mint-mark - normally stamped in incuse within the central large dot on the reverse - has been mostly worn away.

It's also entirely possible that it's a contemporary counterfeit.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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1911 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2023  12:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Black blotches can be on gold as I recall as "carbon spots".
I guess it's from impurities?
I know people that dabble in gold plating.
Could have been one of those if any real gold is present?
SG would be helpful, but I don't think we'll get that.
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Brummagem's Avatar
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128 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2023  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Brummagem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you :) Yes I think a contemporary counterfeit sounds likely.

I hope to make it to one or two major shows later this year. I wonder if the ANA will have anyone there with an XRF device? I'll take it with me and see if I can get some feedback on it.
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SaturnD51's Avatar
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425 Posts
 Posted 02/21/2023  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SaturnD51 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not long after these new copper coins were introduced, black market counterfeit versions of the 10 wen appeared and illegal mints or "private mints" (#23616;#31169;) opened all over China and started producing more coins than what the Qing government's set quotas allowed on the market. Both Chinese and foreigners soon started producing struck cash coins of inferior quality, often with traces of the Korean 5 fun coins they were overstruck on, or with characters and symbols not found on official government issued coins. Joseon began minting modern-style machine-struck copper-alloy coins in 1892, which was 8 years before the Qing dynasty did so in China. These coins were often minted by Korean businessmen and former Japanese Samurai (specifically R#333;nin) looking to make a profit on exchanging the low value copper coins into silver dollars as a single Chinese silver dollar had the purchasing power of 1000 Korean fun. The majority of the counterfeit coins bear the inscription that they were minted in either Zhejiang province or Shandong province, but they circulated all over the coastal regions of China. Because the hand-operated presses used by the counterfeiters did not exert enough pressure on the coins to sufficiently obliterate the inscriptions and symbols on the Korean 5 fun coins, the counterfeit Qing dynasty 10 wen coins made using this method would usually exhibit a combination of both the Chinese Da-Qing Tongbi and Korean 5 fun designs. For example, there can still be traces of a wreath surrounding the dragon or minor traces of the original Korean inscription.[33][3

Your coin is found here but it doesn't match any of the Government minted coins. They may be counterfeit?Didn't see the coin on any Province.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da-Qing_Tongbi
Edited by SaturnD51
02/21/2023 3:54 pm
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 Posted 02/22/2023  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow what a great post!
Something right up my alley that I never knew about.
Now I have to try to find a coin or two like this for my collection.
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