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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,330 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5767 Posts |
Yep, another modern (lowly?) 2022 P Lincoln Cent thread. The Rodney Dangerfield of modern US coin. It gets no respect. But I wanted to put this out there and see if anyone else has noticed some pretty strong doubling on the tip of the nose. At first glance it looks like MD and that's exactly what I thought. (Absolutely not a hit either as I've found it on 7 coins as of now with markers to boot.)  Here are the obv and rev images for everyone as well. The coin was struck by older dies as it has some strong die flow lines on both sides. (There is no "glare doubling on the images. What you see is what I see in hand.)   My question to the community is whether any of you have come across this easy-to-spot secondary nose tip on any of your 2022 Lincoln's? (This is even obvious enough for beginners to see and contribute whether they have seen any nose tips like this.) Thanks in advance for any comments or whether you have noticed this on any nose tips for the 2022 Lincolns. Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55 02/03/2023 07:29 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8726 Posts |
You did not mention the other areas that are in you file name, so I marked them up. Hope that's ok?  I know you know better but did you turn the coin in different directions, to make sure it didn't go away or change? 
-makecents-
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Valued Member
United States
109 Posts |
@PetesPockets55 - Thanks for sharing your coin. @Others - In this example without other errors in existence (except what -makecents- points out) does it add much value? @Me - I feel at times I find examples of these, but talk myself out of it and say it is just shadows. Great example to learn from.
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
5767 Posts |
You're so sneaky looking at the file name. LOL Well, what are your thoughts on the first image, and while you're at it how about this image? (Ignore the "earwig" getting ready to bore into Lincoln's ear Mr. Rod Serling. LOL. Look at the linear shadow to the right of the dark blob.) ps. I used black arrows on my marked up one. LOL 
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55 02/03/2023 09:06 am
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
5767 Posts |
Silverthorn- Thanks for commenting and that's why I posted this one. I've seen this tip of the nose doubling before (early last year) and ignored it as MD. I ignored it as well last weekend but after the 5th or 6th one in one batch of circulated cents a friend gave me to look through I looked a little closer and noticed the other areas. I set them aside and have compared them as a group. I started to wonder if this might be master die doubling since I found so many in rapid succession and they might be more common than I thought. I only found 1 or 2 more after the initial group which is why I'm asking others if they have noticed any 2022 Lincoln's with this easy-to-see tip-of-the-nose doubling. If there are a lot like this it might be master die doubling and if not, IMHO, it might be a DDO on an individual working die. Thanks again and please let me know if anyone else has come across this doubling. Here's an image of a marker on all of them so far. Die scratches (die flow lines?) at the base of the shoulder by VDB and lapel. (This image exhibits some glare on the shoulder near the field which hides some of the die scratches but it's the only one I took of these so far.)  
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55 02/03/2023 09:28 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8726 Posts |
I'm not sure what to think. It is very unusual and the fact you have found a few would make you wonder. I had it explained to me, recently, there can be no master die doubling anymore. The master die is created by a computer program, not the minting process. Silvio brought it to my attention. It could be a doubled working hub though.
-makecents-
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
As mentioned, the are affected is flat, typical for Machine Doubling. on a doubled die, it will not be flat and lower than the design. It will be raised and enlarged showing spread/distorted devices. (From a Single Squeeze die)
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
5767 Posts |
I agree that this type of doubling on the nose is usually MD. The forehead, eye, and inside the ear aren't flat though. That's one reason I started this thread, as this one seems atypical. The doubling inside the ear is what makes me really question this as MD. And there are some known varieties that exhibit MD-like doubling. 1935 DDO-001 (FS 101) comes to mind. (date, WE TRUST, etc.) http://varietyvista.com/01a%20LC%20...5PDDO001.htm
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
5767 Posts |
Here's an update on this thread. I posted this same info on a couple of sites to get some insight as to the cause. It generated enough interest that an expert in numismatics, Will Brooks, agreed to look at some coins in hand. I was able to send off 13 coins, that had the doubling as described.
Here is his reply on another forum (used with his permission but underlining is by me): " ..... I was definitely able to determine at least 3 different dies here. Since all have the same doubling on them, it must be a master die issue.... one set of 4 had the exact same 3 die dots around the F, and another set had the exact same heavy flow lines going from the shield into the the O, F, and A. A 3rd set had neither of these markers."
(Finding so many with the doubling was my first clue this was probably going to end up being master die issue. Different markers was the clincher.)
Thanks to all who looked this thread over and especially if you added some comments.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Moderator
 United States
94765 Posts |
Thanks for this update Pete. Very interesting stuff
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8726 Posts |
Cool findings! I look forward to seeing where this ends up.
-makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
United States
587 Posts |
Yea so this is the first thread I've looked at about 2022's, so bear with me but it's not just me who thinks every other one looks all wampy-jawed and distorted? It's glare that's causing this
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
5767 Posts |
Quote: ... It's glare that's causing this Welcome and thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying all 2022's with this doubling are from glare or just the images I've posted? It is tough to get images of the eye for sure but I can assure you these images are representative of the coins when looking at them in hand. (I'd send you one but all the ones I found went to Will for his analysis.) This is more of an informational thread for others to reference when they come across this doubling on the tip of the nose (it is the easiest part to spot.) This won't be rare or valuable for the same reason the Master die doubling on the 1972 P or 2017 P Lincoln cents aren't valuable or hard to find. Will Brook's die study and analysis of the 13 coins I sent him was that he found three die pairs with the same doubling but different die markers. Those are classic indicators of master die doubling.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
587 Posts |
No no no not referring to your coins or pics at all, I'm just trying to figure out what I missed on previous threads about 2022's. Above there was a comment on glare doubling, then the comment about the 'lowly' 2022's'!! But as I'm coin rolling, it seems as if every other 2022 I come across looks distorted in some form or fashion, enough to which I'm putting aside. Have there been others posting questions like this about em? And no I haven't noticed the nose tip on any of the ones I've looked at but am keeping an eye out now!! But sorry about the confusion, I should've clarified my position, wasn't talking about your pics whatsoever
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
5767 Posts |
Quote: ... But sorry about the confusion, I should've clarified my position, wasn't talking about your pics whatsoever Thanks for clarifying. Sometimes my images are fine sometimes not so much and the glare does affect them, so I don't get offended at all. And there aren't too many posts/threads about 2022 Lincoln cents that I've seen here or on other forums. you can search for the threads on this forum at the top left of all the pages in the "Search Coin Community" box. It can be very helpful. I agree that original rolls of shield cents are torture to look at sometimes for any length of time. These were in a group a friend let me look through that he received in change. I remember having seen the tip of the nose earlier in 2022 but I may have ignored the doubling at that time due to the glare you mention. I suspect more and more will pop up as more people spot the nose tip. Hopefully, you come across some yourself.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups. We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Edited by Petespockets55 02/22/2023 1:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8726 Posts |
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Replies: 28 / Views: 2,330 |