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1905 Indian Cent For Grading / Opinion

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Pillar of the Community

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 Posted 05/21/2023  4:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Blastenpene4 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Ok, not like that crazy one that went for over $200 on ebay. I think this is an honest coin and am curious as to grading opinions. I think shield puts it into AU 53 territory. No idea what could have caused that damage as the rest of the coin looks pretty strong to me.
1905-Indian-Cent-For-Grading-/-Opinion
1905-Indian-Cent-For-Grading-/-Opinion
1905-Indian-Cent-For-Grading-/-Opinion
1905-Indian-Cent-For-Grading-/-Opinion
Edited by Blastenpene4
05/21/2023 4:51 pm
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2023  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
55 for me

You have a talent for finding nice and interesting Indian Head cents, apparently.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 05/21/2023  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Blastenpene4 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, paralyse. Paid $25 for this one, but can't figure how the shield got damaged the way it did. Rest of the coin looks good to me and the shield didn't bust the deal for that money.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 05/21/2023  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say AU-55, shot 58.
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 05/22/2023  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the reverse toning is tough to see how much if any wear is there. unless the light is hiding something on the cheek I'm not seeing any signs of circulation there however there a few tiny marks on the highest area of the cheekbone. AU55/58 or even MS62. . paralyse is pretty good at nailing these
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 05/22/2023  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Blastenpene4 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So you guys think that softness on the lower right of the shield is from a poor strike? Seems like the adjacent oak leaves would be a little weak as well if that were so. (?)
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 05/22/2023  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So you guys think that softness on the lower right of the shield is from a poor strike?


I would say yes, or even die related only because if it was from circulation you would see more consistency across other devices. you have the N right below it not exhibiting any of that
Edited by panzaldi
05/22/2023 2:18 pm
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ijn1944's Avatar
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 Posted 05/22/2023  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Strong AU55. Nice coin.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 05/22/2023  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note the "prongs" on top of the shield, and the die crack at K9 reverse that intersects the left edge of the left side of the wreath. As bronze Indian Head cent die pairs wear out, that area on top of the shield usually becomes more pronounced. Die defects such as cracks can happen at any stage of the die pair's lifespan, from the first coin struck to the last one, so they're not a diagnostic in and of themselves for the "age" of a die pair, but there are other clues (flowlining, polishing marks, subsidence/sinking, crumbling denticles, recutting, etc.) that can help determine a die state.

We know in general that this coin did not receive a full strike:
- Feathertips are flat and lack definition
- Ribbon, diamonds, and necklace are weak and indistinct
- Main hair curl on the neck is almost flat
- The lower edge of the headband merges with the forehead and the hair locks below are flat

- On the reverse: the veins of the wreath leaves are not well defined
- The arrow feathers and nock are "mushy" and so are the central vertical shield lines
- There is little separation between the wreath ribbon ends and the arrow shafts
- There is a bit of weakness in the denticles at K12->K2

We also can guess based on the overall appearance of the coin that this flatness is likely NOT due to wear from circulation. The fields are relatively free of marks and other disturbances, and areas of the coin that DID strike up fully show little signs of wear or handling.

My hypothesis would be that this is a coin that did not receive a full strike due to worn dies, and that's what you are seeing on the shield, and elsewhere. Again, I am not an expert on Indian Head cents, just a collector who has a keen interest in studying the processes involved in turning a blank piece of metal into a coin.
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 05/23/2023  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
paralyse nailed the strike/die analysis on this one. his assessment can be applied to a lot of indians if anyone is attempting to enhance their grading skills.

all too often new collectors will look at photograde and/or one grading marker such as the number of the diamonds on an indian and base the entire grade on that. one of the biggest components of grading, that very few talk about, is strike and die issues. these are even issues that TPG's struggle with and sometimes consider and sometimes they dont which drives me crazy. I think it all comes down to the knowledge of the grader in that specific series or they grade all the same. meaning they either take it into consideration or they dont across all series which is worse.
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