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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,063 |
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Valued Member
Sweden
146 Posts |
Hi,
From what I have understand only one diepair was used for stiking both the proof and ms coins of this year.
I know some of the ms coins show dieclashing but not all.
I have also seen photos of MS graded coins with great reverse strike and som Proof graded with weak reverse strikes.
I read that many of the MS coins also can look somewhat prooflike.
So if the dies are the same,the coin has great strike and somewhat mirrorlike fields. How can you tell if it is a proof or a ms?
/denkan
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Pillar of the Community
United States
630 Posts |
Is the reeding sharp or dull?
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Moderator
 United States
54280 Posts |
Do you have one that you can post an image of?
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
The same difficulty (MS or Proof) occurs with other coins. This is how I understand the 1856 Flying Eagle cent is treated. Rick Snow's attribution guide had it worked out. But as I understand it the TPG's all had their own opinions. PCGS used to go by Snow's definitions. But they threw in the towel and did away with Snow's definitions after years of varying opinions. Only a Proof grade is now assigned by PCGS to any 1856 Flying Eagle cents. I believe NGC has always graded them only as Proof. I don't know about ANACS and ICG. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4587 Posts |
With only 500 struck, they were probably (have to check) struck only on a single day using one pair of dies.
The only place I know that the data was published was the November 1964 issue of the "Numismatic Scrapbook".
Thus you are looking for the hallmarks of a proof strike - more detail, squared-off rims, etc.
And die-marriage indicators.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4587 Posts |
And I have a copy (had to finish breakfast and go upstairs to my office)... All Half Dimes for 1865 - 13,000 business strikes and 500 proofs were struck on a single day, April 21st. A single die pair is certainly possible. That forces you back to die wear characteristics. https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin.../images/4386https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-explor...865-h10c-ms/Look at PCGS' MS67+ Plate coin... it shows a clear clash on the reverse to the right of the E in dime. The untoned 2nd example has it but less distinct. The third coin does not. NGC's plate coin has a more detailed clash - the fold of the drapery is present too. Look at the dentils below the date all the way over to Liberty's foot. Looks like a die crack? That gives you the start of an emission sequence. Start haunting the auction archives... https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...type=NGC1229 https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-hal...type=NGC1257PS: same coin, different holders (MS67 CAC in 2015, MS68 in 2017), no clash Eventually, you will be able to say "this is the earliest known die state". If you coin matches that it's possibly proof. If it's from a later die state, it's absolutely not. -----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Valued Member
 Sweden
146 Posts |
Hi, Here are some photos. A though coin to photograph.  The fields have mirror although PL a best.   /denkan |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4587 Posts |
No clash...
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Valued Member
Sweden
146 Posts |
I know there is no clash. But still dont know for sure if it is a proof or a ms. The thing I have noticed is that all coins I have seen, proof or ms have the same chip in the 8 in the date. So I think only one obversedie was used. The thing that makes me think this is a proof strike is that there is a smal thread on the reverse at 6 o chock that I think is clothremain from diepolishing. But I dont know...  if only one reversedie was used the first/early ms strikes could be mistaken for proofs? Edited by denkan
06/15/2023 5:30 pm
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,063 |
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Posted 06/04/2023 04:03 am
