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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,347 |
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
This is also confusing... Based on the obvious bronze coloring this immediately appeared to be a fake... It does not ping under the Morgan dollar setting that authentic large silver coins ping under... but it does ping under the half dollar setting. Correct diameter and weighs 25.3 g I am guessing a contemporary counterfeit made in part from silver? Or made by a jeweler? If so, who wants a Fernando vii pendant? Thoughts would be appreciated!   Edited by Roma2021
06/12/2023 1:09 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
25086 Posts |
Roma, it appears to be a silver-plated copper counterfeit. I have at least a dozen fake 8 reales.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
 Italy
1130 Posts |
@hondo, that's what I figured. I was only concerned because it pinged under the half dollar setting on Pingcoin... Obviously that's not the only diagnostic but still ... A bronze shouldn't ping.
Edited by Roma2021
06/12/2023 4:37 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25086 Posts |
Roma, I'm not familiar with Pingcoin so can't comment on that. With that in mind, are your sure that your pinger is calibrated?
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@hondo... It's an app on my phone and has been spot on in the past. A fake coin has not pinged authentic under the three frequencies the app measures.
Typically, I weigh, loupe, measure, and ping any and all coins I buy.
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Valued Member
United States
59 Posts |
That coin looks fake AH, however,
The royalist mints that remained operating in the hinterlands in 1821, 1822 were not operating to anything close to theoretical specs.
Numista reports Chihuahua mint going to 1822, and reports the coins to usually be overstrikes of earlier 8 reales, countermarked 8 reales, and some other oddities. So likely genuine coins of the date would not have a good edge or good appearance. Possible even that coins coming from the mints would be greatly defective.
That said, I doubt the coin is real. Supposedly the assayer was RP for Chihuahua, and where is that on the coin? Is that an "F" with no second initial for assayer? that is quite odd.
I would not totally give up on it, but put it in the category of most likely counterfeit. Who knows, could be contemporary counterfeit, which is another question that others know more about.
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@wizened, thanks.
This topic hasn't generated much interest. I did some initial research a few weeks ago, but wasn't interested enough to keep going. I usually use forum responses for additional leads.
The edge on this coin looks like a half hearted good faith effort at a passable fake.
My number one issue is the ping. It's concerning to me that it pinged on the app under the half dollar setting.
I have used it (along with other diagnostics) and it's proven a good tool.
Curious.
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Moderator
United States
34397 Posts |
@roma, there are a few folks on CCF who know a ton about Spanish coins (besides @hondo of course). I'll move your thread over to the main world forum so that they hopefully notice and comment.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Great coin! This is a, contemporary counterfeit Guadalajara issue, assayer FS. Looks like a Sheffield plate type (silver bonded to a base metal core).
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@threefifty... Thanks... So a circa 1821 fake?
Why do you think it would ping like silver under the half dollar app on Pingcoin?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25086 Posts |
I've already confessed my ignorance of Pingcoin, but how does it react to a clad Kennedy half dollar? Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Roma,
There are a lot of experts on here (e.g. swamperbob) who I hope will correct me if I misstate anything. I collect contemporary counterfeit 8 reales and can say (as others have noted previously) the "ping" test is not reliable. It will identify obvious base metal counterfeits but not debased silver or Sheffield plate coins.
I'm not sure when portrait types from the War of Independence stopped circulating, but Riddell noted plenty in circulation, including counterfeits, in New Orleans at the time of his Monograph of the Silver Dollar in 1845.
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Thank you both. @hondo...a clad half dollar will not ping under the pre-65 setting; none of the three frequencies will register. A 40% KHD will only register one frequency. A fake Chinese made Morgan will not register any frequency. Some larger .999 coins will register under the dollar setting, no large bronze or clad coins will register. It's an interesting app, but I have also weighed, measured, and louped every coin in addition to using the app. Here's a screen shot for reference.  Edited by Roma2021
06/27/2023 04:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@threefifty thanks.
I'm curious to hear more about this item.
It is priced at €24 and I may go take a look next week.
The weight is also interesting at 25.3 grams. If the authentic examples are at 27...with that hole plugged and surface unscratched, I imagine this would come in around 26+ grams. Pretty close for quick exchanges.
It's holed and has been scratched up pretty good; if a contemporary counterfeit, someone checked it pretty throughly!
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Here's this one close up .. I bought it this afternoon. Again, I give the counterfeiter a lot of credit on the edge work.    |
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Great purchase! This is a nice one, looks like it was struck with hand engraved dies, which I don't think is common for counterfeits of this Guadalajara type.
Edited by threefifty
08/19/2023 3:42 pm
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Replies: 20 / Views: 2,347 |
Posted 06/12/2023 09:53 am
