Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1859 Canadian Large Cent , Errors ? 4.30g

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 23 / Views: 3,711Next Topic
Page: of 2
New Member

Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  2:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just wondering with some things on this 1859 , if any specialists on the 1859 are on this board as theres so much to digest as a new collector ... I have some circled things in pics that may be doubling ? Or Cuds? Chips not sure and also weight , saw its supposed to weight 4.54 grams I know for sure theres discrepancies, and weighed a few other coins with the scale that have slight variations like 1972 penny should be 3.24 mine weighs 3.26 .. so my scale is good. Usually 0.15 max variations is is expected with coins but 0.25ish seems like alot and the coin isn't that worn out .just wondering thank you!

1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
Pillar of the Community
Phil310's Avatar
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on your photos of the repunching of the E in DEI and the G of GRATIA, combined with your photo of the leaf 9 stem, I think your coin is Haxby die pair PC59-90 (Obverse 32 + Reverse E33).

These are not errors, but markers for specific dies that were used to produce these coins. Every die that was used for 1859 cents had some hand repair work done, and what you see on your coin is evidence of that.

You can look in the Haxby online catalog and compare your coin with the pages for Obverse die 32 and reverse die E33 to be sure. Here are the links to those pages.

https://www.vickycents.com/obv-o32.html
https://www.vickycents.com/rev-e33.html

There are 253 known die pairs for the 1859 Narrow 9 cents. I started my collection with 1 also.

Welcome to the forum!
Edited by Phil310
06/16/2023 3:51 pm
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow awesome .Thank you for all the information!! At least now I have an idea , I was trying to use vicky cents but was over whelmed with all the different attributes and varities . Thanks again for the help.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
5585 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1858's and 9's were very thin and became thicker starting the next mintages in 1876. They were originally made to be the exact size as the Brit 1/2 penny, but people didn't like the Canadian thin coins so they reverted. They were made at 4.54g because 100 would equal a pound and could be used as a counterweight on scales. They were also 1 inch in width, so 12 of them were a foot. There were many repunched letters and tired dies for '59 so you have lots of Die Deterioration doublings, as well as repunched elements.
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like I have alot of research to do over the weekend . This coin is unbelievably interesting to me and I just scratched the surface. You guys just opened my eyes up even more to the history of this cent .but Thats what I'm confused about though why is this only 4.30 grams..it bounces between 4.29 and 4.30 on the scale ..guessing back then obviously being hand made theres plenty of discrepancies in weight .
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
5585 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It should weigh 4.54g as a newly struck coin. Any wear would naturally reduce the weight and, if the planchet were a little light to start with, then that would make up the difference.
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So , so far from what I've gathered the only possible way to know if its brass or bronze is literally only the XRF . As color ,weight are not indicators of what the compound is right ?
Pillar of the Community
Phil310's Avatar
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This coin is unbelievably interesting to me and I just scratched the surface.


I would recommend reading Jim Haxby's introductory article in the 1859 catalog. https://www.vickycents.com/prime.html

It will give you a better understanding of how these coins were made and what to look for when trying to attribute a coin to a specific die pair.

Also there is a youtube video about how to use the Haxby 1859 catalog which may be helpful. A member of the forum did the video.
Here is a link to that thread about the video.

http://goccf.com/t/387793&SearchTerms=haxby

Have fun!
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can someone help identify this ? I've been trying to match for hours now and just lost completely going through the pictures can't seem to find exact one , here's some better shots , thank you ! I watched the YouTube video too just can't find my exact fonts and die breaks that match...I find some things that match and the can't seem to get past the obverse .
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/16/2023  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a shot of the G . Small split
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
Pillar of the Community
Canada
818 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2023  02:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back up there newcollector. Did you not read Phil 310's reponse ? He gave you the information you are asking again, and put two links which show your die pairs and what makes it that number. All your errors and info for your coin is on those two links.

When looking up a # on the vickycents site, the easiest starting point is by die cracks. Your coin reverse has a crack at leaf 7 (starting at the top and counting clockwise). Click on ID my coin, then reverse markers. On the image that comes up, click leaf 7 then look for the image that exactly matches yours and click on it. On that page, check leaf 9 to see if it matches yours. At the top of the page it will tell you what obverses to check to find the pair.
Edited by TerryT
06/17/2023 02:06 am
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2023  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tried that. And yes I saw his response but realized it wasn't it because of that leaf 7 with the die crack..is Rev G1 , but I'm having difficulty matching the obverse, none of those pairs listed that I can see pair up with the G1 reverse . That's I asked for help.
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
5585 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2023  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think G1. If you can't find your coin using D/C's (sometimes you have to just look at the chart that says there's a crack there in a certain die state), since there's not a photo of every crack, then try to ID from the Obverse initially. You have some nice repunched letters in Gratia and maybe Regina. Phil, above, gave you good info.
Pillar of the Community
Phil310's Avatar
United States
1101 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2023  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Although the die crack at leaf 7 looks like the one on the G1 reverse, your coin is not reverse G1. It is Reverse E33 which has an almost identical die crack at leaf 7. I noticed that under the listing of die cracks at leaf 7, the catalog does not show a photo of reverse E33. That is an oversight which we will correct.

Given that two different reverses can have very similar die cracks, you can not use a single marker. You have to take the coin as a whole and look at every marker on both sides to attribute it. For instance, all G group reverses will have a gap in the vine above loop 2. Your coin does not show that gap. Always look at the stem to leaf 9. The stem on your coin matches E33, but not G1.

It takes a while to get used to all the markers to look for when attributing 1859's and I admit it can be a little difficult at first, but don't give up. You'll get more familiar with them in time. Learning the differences in the reverse groups will help a lot.
New Member
Canada
29 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2023  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NewCollector11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you guys again for responding. Starting to understand it , first time ever trying to disect a 1859 large cent .. and definitely the toughest I've had trying to identify a coin lol. I think your spot on now that I'm seeing what to look for . E33 leaf 7 state 3 matches pretty darn close . I didn't see that within the pairing theres different states. The last image for reverse 33 in state 3 matches almost perfect. loop 2 also looks identical . Sorry you got it spot on . Thanks again for helping me understand !! Your a legend. One thing is,, yea its 33+32 so is mine a E33-3 ? I circled below in the pics
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
1859-Canadian-Large-Cent-,-Errors-?-4.30g
  Previous TopicReplies: 23 / Views: 3,711Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.34 seconds to rattle this change. Forums