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Silver Coins. Why Sometimes Shiny And Sometimes Toned?

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RickyO's Avatar
Argentina
33 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2023  11:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RickyO to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi! I am RickyO from Argentina. I collect silver coins, mainly from different Latin American countries. I have just bought these two...

Silver-Coins.-Why-Sometimes-Shiny-And-Sometimes-Toned?

The coin on top is 25 cents from Cuba 1953, 900 silver. The one below is 1 bolivar Venezuela 1960, 835 silver.

Now, the dates and silver content are similar. But the Cuban coin is quite black, particularly near the rim, while the Venezuelan coin is silver shiny. Could someone tell me why is there such a difference in toning between the two coins? And should I do something to the Cuban coin so it looks more silvery and nice shiny shiny? Perhaps a very very very soft brush could help? Is it a bad toning anyway or might it be attractive?

A side question... I have looked for Cuban coins on the web, particularly on ebay. There are no Cuban coins. Is it that because of the embargo? If someone living in Chicago has a Cuban coin from before the Castro revolution, let's say 1920, why isn't he allowed to sell it online? And is the lack of Cuban coins offered online at certain sites beneficial to the price of said coins, because it's more difficult to get them?

Thank you for your patience with my questions!

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HondoB's Avatar
United States
25282 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2023  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ricky, do NOT clean the Cuba coin. The toning is perfectly understandable and acceptable. Why it toned would take a long discussion, but it is preferable to leave it in its toned condition than to dip it in a silver cleaner.
Second, ebay does not allow the sale of coins from Cuba under any circumstance because of the embargo, unless you can sneak it through with an oblique listing.
Other online auction sites do not have such restrictions. I have seen some on HiBid.com, but not a great number. There are some on other sales sites but they are ones known for having many fakes and counterfeits.
I would like to get a Cuba peso coin such as the following but they are not easy to come by here in the US.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces9263.html
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
Edited by HondoB
08/05/2023 12:26 am
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34413 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2023  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have looked for Cuban coins on the web, particularly on ebay. There are no Cuban coins. Is it that because of the embargo?


Yes I think so. Here is the explanation that I found:


Quote:
eBay's policy prohibits the sale of most items that originate from Cuba due to the sanctions enforced by the U.S. Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16832 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2023  07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, lots of questions in this post, let's see if we can break it down.

Quote:
Now, the dates and silver content are similar. But the Cuban coin is quite black, particularly near the rim, while the Venezuelan coin is silver shiny. Could someone tell me why is there such a difference in toning between the two coins?

The coins have had different histories, and been exposed to different environments.

The chemical that causes silver to turn black is sulfur. Sulfur is present in many things: industrial air pollution, cigarette smoke, human sweat and saliva, cooking fumes from garlic, onions and eggs, and even certain kinds of rubber and cardboard. A silver coin left exposed to these things will turn black; a silver coin protected from such things will stay shiny and silvery.

Quote:
And should I do something to the Cuban coin so it looks more silvery and nice shiny shiny? Perhaps a very very very soft brush could help? Is it a bad toning anyway or might it be attractive?

Coins can get "ugly toning". But most collectors would agree, that this specific toning is not "ugly" and should not be removed. As noted above, toning of silver coins is perfectly "natural".

Quote:
A side question... I have looked for Cuban coins on the web, particularly on ebay. There are no Cuban coins. Is it that because of the embargo? If someone living in Chicago has a Cuban coin from before the Castro revolution, let's say 1920, why isn't he allowed to sell it online? And is the lack of Cuban coins offered online at certain sites beneficial to the price of said coins, because it's more difficult to get them?

It is indeed because of the embargo. Rather, it is because of ebay's robotic (and most would say idiotic) interpretation of the embargo.

ebay has placed a blanket ban on the sale of any artifact from Cuba. This ban is mostly enforced through ebay's listing-checking bots. Anyone putting "Cuba" in the listing or description, will find their listing will be automatically blocked.

Some people try to get around the ban by listing Cuban coins under a pseudonym like "Kuba", "South Florida" or "the big island west of Haiti". The bots won't be triggered by such listings, but a search on ebay for "Cuba" won't find them either. However, if somebody manually reports such a listing to ebay, that ebay seller is likely to get banned from ebay for deliberately trying to avoid the embargo.

Yes, it is "stupid" and illogical that coins struck by the pro-USA pre-Castro regime in Cuba (many of which were actually struck in US mints) are also banned. It is also irrational and unfair that coin sellers outside of the USA (from countries which do not have a diplomatic spat against Cuba) are likewise blocked from selling their coins on ebay. But, ebay's house, ebay's rules. If you want to buy or sell Cuban coins, you'll have to go somewhere else.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
1491 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2023  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfamind to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great answers, above. And please don't try to clean the environmentally toned coins. It will destroy any numismatic value.
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RickyO's Avatar
Argentina
33 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2023  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RickyO to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everybody for your kind answers! It has all been most enlightening to me. Thank you.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188747 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2023  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The coin on top is 25 cents from Cuba 1953, 900 silver.

Quote:
Ricky, do NOT clean the Cuba coin. The toning is perfectly understandable and acceptable.
I really like the circulation cameo on it!
Pillar of the Community
Singapore
631 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2023  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
'Don't clean your coins' that's what I always hear.

Then when I send in my beautiful toned coin in for grading, the grading company asks if I want to 'conserve' my coin.

When collectors clean coins it's a no no but when grading companies clean coins is called conservation. Hmm.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188747 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2023  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
When collectors clean coins it's a no no but when grading companies clean coins is called conservation. Hmm.
There is a difference. If you have to ask what the difference is, then you understand why we say "never clean coins" as a default position.

Coins should not be cleaned, but they can be conserved. Experienced collectors know the difference and are free to do conservation if they wish. When I say experienced, I mean those who have invested considerable time in both researching how to properly conserve a coin and ruining multiple low-value coins to learn the correct processes.
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United States
1915 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2023  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Toning has to do with exposure to the atmosphere, elements, levels of preservation utilized or ignored. Storage, sunlight, moisture, etc. etc.
Some coins are cleaned, some are spoiled, some are polished.
Some collectors don't agree about their own coins, so a natural toning might be cleaned, dipped or shined up. And that can ruin the piece in the eyes of many. My idea is that if you have a crud looking coin, and you clean or polish it, you just exchange one undesired look for maybe another undesired look.
Edited by Albert
08/07/2023 4:22 pm
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ijn1944's Avatar
United States
19164 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2023  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good conversation above!
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