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 Replies: 11 / Views: 512 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6501 Posts |
Sometimes when trying to authenticate a variety coin, you encounter a situation where some of the documented markers are present on a coin, but not all. How do you handle that situation? For example, I know that some markers can deteriorate as the die transitions from EDS through MDS to LDS. Also, some of the markers selected by attributers can be really tiny, and were often found on a pristine coin. Can markers like die scratches, die chips, die dots get worn away by circulation? Is there some kind of hierarchy in markers where some are considered stronger for validation than others? I just encountered a partial marker situation on a nickel, but it's not the first time that I've been left scratching my head about whether the die markers truly match, or whether a few of them just coincidentally rhyme with my coin. Nickel markers in question: http://goccf.com/t/454536#3932291%0AEdited by Brandmeister
10/22/2023 09:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4135 Posts |
Very good question. maybe Bats or coop can answer.
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Moderator
 United States
95854 Posts |
what condition is the coin in? I could imaging as the coin circulates the markers could get rubbed away in some points.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6501 Posts |
Dearborn, the specific coin that I linked is probably very high AU with some minor scuffing and mild circulation dirt. But some of the markers are incredibly fine structures on the coin surface, if they were ever there at all.
I want this to be a more general question, though. What are the mental yardsticks that experienced folks (like yourself) use when deciding if a degraded marker means it's a mismatch versus a different conclusion.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts |
Probability tells us if two or more markers match exactly, you have a die match. The difficulty is determining an exact match based on photos.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8750 Posts |
There are multiple reasons why this may happen, did not even look at your link, not necessary. The markers you see could be on the master die which could be on many coins or a working hub, which could also be on many coins. Also, markers will appear and disappear for different reasons throughout the final dies life, die ware, Die Deterioration, polishing, abrading and die damage. Different attributors will use different markers too, sometimes there is something that stands out to them and possibly them only. Hope this helps. Forgot to mention, it could be master or hub doubling, which will have different markers, when it finally gets to the working die and there is also the possibility you have misattributed a variety or it's not a variety at all. -makecents-
Edited by -makecents-
10/22/2023 5:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6501 Posts |
That does make sense. Er, cents. =) For the single squeeze pop doubles, I feel like the possibility of matching the wrong variety can be quite high. The hubbing process is guaranteed to generate a good number of them, compared to the more rare and distinctive traditional doubled dies of class 1-7. I would like to know how their features survive from EDS-MDS-LDS-VLDS. For example, will Die Deterioration make the lines-in-doors thicker, thinner, fuzzier, longer, shorter? Are some of the ones that we think are unique new doubles actually just earlier or later states of the same dies? Is it even possible that some of them are actually hub damage around the door edge or triangle, as that right-angle crease would take the first impact on every successive hubbing? If we couldn't be 100% confident in the main doubled feature, then it all comes down to matching markers. But like you said, the markers appear, change, even disappear based on die state and other minting factors. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74096 Posts |
Heavy circulation wear can also affect finding die markers too.
Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6501 Posts |
That seems plausible. How much circulation wear is really required to wipe out hairline die scratches?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74096 Posts |
Quote:
How much circulation wear is really required to wipe out hairline die scratches? Good question Brandmeister. Probably a lot. Errers and Varietys.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2824 Posts |
Sometimes I put image of know error on top layer in photoshop and turn up transparency to see if match the date or other features.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Digital superimposition overlay of coin images may help.
Need to be of exactly the same scale.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 512 |
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Posted 10/22/2023 10:19 am
Uncirculated American Silver Eagles 
