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1877-S Trade Dollar Chopmarked - How Is This Coin MS-61

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Pillar of the Community
mrwiskers's Avatar
United States
1780 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2023  11:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwiskers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
...you make some strong points, Slider, & who wouldn't love that beautiful Trade dollar & strong chopmark, btw ...

...but, I would counter that MS does mean Mint State, which would not include any outside wear or damage ... or, as APMEX explains:

..."A Mint State coin is one that is uncirculated and resembles its original state when it was produced ... Mint state coins have never been in circulation so when buyers get these coins, they are buying a coin in the same condition as originally produced, or very close to it. ..." ( https://learn.apmex.com/learning-gu...-state-coin/ ) ...

... TPGs agree that, by their standards, MS grades mean no circulation ...

...Merchants chopping a coin & passing it along would, in my humble opinion, qualify as circulation, & the proof being the chop or chops...

...My point is that TPGs should use designations other that MS for coin surfaces altered after it left the mint ...


...& for the link provided ...Wow...what an assembly! very nice! thanks 4 the link ...
Edited by mrwiskers
12/28/2023 11:58 am
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2023  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My personal and professional opinion is that the act of stamping a chop mark into a coin means that it has been physically handled by a person and is therefore no longer Uncirculated in the strictest sense. However, the gap between AU and Uncirculated is rarely so black and white in reality. Is a coin that was handled by a person other than a Mint worker for 30 seconds then placed into a cabinet and never again touched still "Uncirculated" or is it now "AU?" What if it's handled for a day? A week? So on...

Most dealers and collectors will allow a degree of physical handling before they consider a coin "AU", but it's subjective, not scientific.

I find it somewhat dubious that PCGS will certify a chopmarked coin as Uncirculated, but will not offer the same privilege to most counterstamped coins in the same condition. I tend to agree with NGC's views - a chopmarked coin is technically damaged, regardless of whether or not the chop mark itself makes the coin collectible. (By necessity, this distinction excludes coins that were counterstamped or marked DURING the minting process.)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
12/28/2023 12:38 pm
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4471 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2023  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mrwiskers, I agree with what you state in principle about mint state, but the TPG's bend the rules to meet their financial goals. NGC Details the Trade dollar for the chop marks, but the NGC chop marked Trade dollars often have been cleaned with no note about the cleaning. I see the PCGS chop mark designation on the label as a polite way of saying details, and I like the way that PCGS grades Trade dollars vs NGC.
Edited by Slider23
12/28/2023 1:03 pm
Pillar of the Community
mrwiskers's Avatar
United States
1780 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2023  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwiskers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
..yeah, slider I see your point ... we agree on what you say, but, from the strictest, conservative point of view, they should not designate MS ...

...again, what a great specimen you have, ....
Edited by mrwiskers
12/28/2023 1:31 pm
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