Shield Nickel-1866, No Rays-Hub IIa ?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 11 / Views: 1,371
Morgans Dad Pillar of the Community United States 5604 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 8:05 pm This is not one of the type coins I collect, I was in one of my favorite coin shops and walked in on the conversation about this Nickel. I am told that this coin is not listed in the red book-2009, the coin is listed for this year "With Rays", The coin I have in hand, has no Rays. I will get a picture for this post, while doing so I am and can't help wondering, why this Red Book does not list this coin. After some research I found some reference to the Hubs used on this type coin, according to this information, this coin, the 1866-NO-RAYS coin die used was the "Reverse Hub I-with rays", meaning this coin was only minted using this reverse Hub. The coin I am holding has no rays and according to this guide this coin had been minted with the Reverse Hub IIA, meaning this coin has the pup's of the Rev.HUB IIA. While the Reverse has no rays, I can not find that this coin was minted the way it shows in my hand, any comments, pictures to follow sorry........ Edited by Morgans Dad 05/05/2009 8:25 pm Report this Post to the Staff

Jaobler Pillar of the Community United States 6381 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 9:55 pm I'm not aware of any regular 1866 Shield nickels that were struck using the "no rays" reverse. However, after striking problems were noted during that first year of production the mint began experimenting with a modified reverse. They struck a number of pattern coins, including the J-508 pattern issue which paired the regular 1866 obverse design with the new no-rays reverse. These coins are struck in copper and are considered R-6 on the rarity scale. Here are photos of an NGC PR-64 Brown example that sold this year for $2760 in a Heritage auction. It actually seems like a pretty reasonable price for a really cool coin. A normal 1866 proof nickel in PR-64 will have a similar price tag. Since few collectors go for patterns the prices tend to stay on the low side for coins that are really very rare. Morgans Dad, please post photos of this unusual coin if possible. Can you determine whether it is made of copper, or normal copper-nickel alloy? Report this Post to the Staff
InfiniteInterest Pillar of the Community United States 673 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 9:56 pm Since you mention the pick up points of the hub, I assume you checked them ? I see no reference to a 66 No Rays hub in the Cherry Pickers Guide ( I know it does not have everything, but I would think this would be listed) If it has the pup's of the IIA hub, I suspect it may be an altered coin. I was not real familiar with these coins, until a couple weeks ago, I just finished looking through about 400 or so of them at the shop that had accumulated. No 66 No Rays in there ! I did find several DDO's , and most every stage of die for the 68 rev 68- except the elusive No Broken Letters type. That was fun ! I will write myself a note and check for a book on these at the shop for a mention of this type of coin. Wow, Jaobler beat me to it, great info Jaobler ! I am sure that would have been mentioned in the book I no longer have to reference tomorrow ! And that is one nice looking coin ! Edited by InfiniteInterest 05/05/2009 10:00 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Morgans Dad Pillar of the Community United States 5604 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 10:33 pm Jaobler, I want to thank-you for your response, the coin I have is" NOT" copper, I feel a Nickel alloy. I am trying to get up a photo, this is not a coin I can find listed anywhere, my source is the Cherrypicker's Guide, which does not show the sweet coin you show, the reverse hub is not in this guide or on the coin I have, I do not think this coin is altered in any way, however is in what I would grade AG/G. ALSO InfiniteInterest, thank-you for your reply too. I feel this coin is a "unique coin" and once a picture is up, I hope to confirm the same..... Report this Post to the Staff
Morgans Dad Pillar of the Community United States 5604 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 11:18 pm This is the best I can do right now for photos. The date is hard to read with the coin in hand, but it does say 1866. Mike Report this Post to the Staff
Jaobler Pillar of the Community United States 6381 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 11:30 pm Very interesting! I see what looks like a "fin" of edge metal showing on the reverse photo, from about 1:00 around to maybe 4:00. Can you take the coin out of the 2X2 and inspect the edge? The "fin" might represent a seam on an altered coin. It is certainly possible someone joined a worn-out 1866 obverse to a no-rays reverse to prepare a fake "mule" error coin. The obverse looks a lot more worn (and pitted) compared to the reverse, so the fake error scenario seems likely to me. If it is real, you may just have an important discovery coin! Seems like a real long shot, however. Report this Post to the Staff
biokemist6 Bedrock of the Community United States 12437 Posts	Posted 05/05/2009 11:45 pm The two sides have dissimilar wear and aging patterns Report this Post to the Staff
Morgans Dad Pillar of the Community United States 5604 Posts	Posted 05/06/2009 01:02 am Jaobler &Bio, thanks for the input. I took the coin out of the 2x2 and there is no way this coin was "put together" there is no evidence what so ever of any foul play. I see how the Obv &Rev look dissimilar, but that is the coin. I wanted to see if people like yourselves had an input of information as this is not the type coin I collect, I believe if from what the CP'S Guide and your opinions tell me and suggest, this could be a "unique" coin. If that is so, what do "we" have here?The coin once removed from the fold exhibits "pitting" also on some areas of the edge, but NOT a made up coin, as in two halves joined together, NOT...... If I can not gather any other Data or information, I would feel that a trip to the TPG'S is in order.....PS: I would accept any and all advice. I would ask in your opinions, who would be the resident Shield nickel Expert, possibly one if not both of you? Thanks, Mike... Report this Post to the Staff
Jaobler Pillar of the Community United States 6381 Posts	Posted 05/06/2009 01:47 am MorgansDad, I suggest you take the best photos you can of the coin outside the holder, plus photos of the edge if possible. It would also be helpful to accurately measure the weight. A "new" Shield nickel weighs 5.00 grams and I would expect a worn example might be as low as 4.5 grams. If you have other AG examples to refer to you could check their weights for comparison. If this no-rays 1866 weighs significantly more or less than other AG nickels that fact might help identify it as an alteration. If you post your best photos and weight data as a new thread in the Classic Coins variety and error section of the Forum, the error/variety experts (Foundinrolls, Coppercoins, MikeDiamond, etc.) would probably have some good input for you. Let's see where this goes! Report this Post to the Staff
Morgans Dad Pillar of the Community United States 5604 Posts	Posted 05/06/2009 08:51 am Thanks again, I have no other same type coin, but I will check with the shop owner, and see if he does, also will check the weight.I will take other photos and try to post in the error section,your help is much appreciated, I think this is going to be at the least, very interesting.......Mike...... Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 05/06/2009 9:13 pm There are two pattern 1866 nickels that have the shield obverse and a no rays reverse. On one of them, J-502, the date is divided by the ball under the shield. That clearly is not this coin. On the other, J-507, the obverse is the pattern obv that was used for the proof coins of this year. In this low a grade it would probably not be identifiable. However the reverse die of J-507 uses a positioning of the stars relative to the legend that is only used on a couple of patterns and the 1867 no rays proofs. This is known as rev hub IIo. The coin in question does not have that hub. (Star points at upright of E in States and center of first A in America.) Your coin has rev hub IIa, also known as Hub of 1867. (Star points at right serif of E and between A&M in America.) The date is not clear in your pictures. I would suggest double checking to make sure it is not 1868 Report this Post to the Staff
Morgans Dad Pillar of the Community United States 5604 Posts	Posted 05/06/2009 9:40 pm Conder101, I did just what you suggested, I re-re checked the date, If you look at the 8 in the date the middle of the 8 has curves that have a distinct sharp curve to it, this is not the case in the last digit of this coin, this coin is dated, 1866. I thank-you for all your information, you are obviously well versed in this type coin,I placed the post in the Classic coin error section for some more assistance,Thanks, Mike.... Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 11 / Views: 1,371

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: US Coins and Currency Forums Forum: US Classic and Colonial Coins

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

View Last 100 New Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.36 seconds to rattle this change.