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 Replies: 21 / Views: 2,439 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18644 Posts |
these earlybirds always give me a headache. there may be some very slight circulation but these eyes can't see if its strike or wear when its that light. weaker strikes are so common and being able to discern strike and wear takes years of knowledge and looking at these. add to that, that most have been cleaned at some point in its life to throw a monkey wrench into the entire grading process. I've only been grading them for a decade and miss more than I hit the grade. i like the coin overall, it has nice eye appeal. it may have had an old old cleaning but I think the coin would grade straight. some strike issues, more so on reverse. I'm at AU58 or lower MS like MS62 due to lack of luster. I'm going to go with MS62. one note that I see regarding any wear is the high relief leaf at K8 which is not showing any signs of wear at all leading me to believe everything is strike related. if wear is going to happen I think it would show right there. one area that could be an issue though is a possible scratch across the shield down the leg. not sure how a TPG will interpret that due to the coins age and condition. imo because the scratch is overtoned I'm betting they ignore it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1788 Posts |
AU details, cleaned and probably scratched. Low AU details, like a 53.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1094 Posts |
AU55 great crusty one. No details as far as I can see.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5663 Posts |
Agree with O-105. I'd say AU-55, although the reverse scratch might detail it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
878 Posts |
Funky surface toning, looks 53ish based on these pics. Lean towards straight grade regardless of scratch on the shield. Will be interesting to see pics once you have it in hand.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1760 Posts |
I'm at 53/55 again. I think it straight grades.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11880 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
04/17/2025 9:54 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Looked at a bunch of 1811 O-105s and I don't see this shield with annulets and what look like superimposed tailfeathers on the leg feathers and shield. Odd.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
04/17/2025 10:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
878 Posts |
I was looking at some 105 and 105a and see the blob defect in the first three or four horizontal lines on many, but not the horizontal defects that to your point look like tail feathers.
What's your take on the reverse and what look like a bunch of pin holes, most notable in the upper half of the coin across the fields and eagle?
Edited by adam126402
04/18/2025 1:13 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Pinholes seem few and not visible without magnification so not really concerned. Probably rubbed against something during its 214 year life.
On the extra devices on the reverse on ther shield and leg feathers, it seems like this reverse die was somehow altered at some point If so there should be other coins with these reverse differences but haven't found one so far.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3628 Posts |
Could these be adjustment marks?  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
Weight adjustment marks on the planchet would show as incuse file marks. These appear raised. Die scratches or clashed die transfers on the reverse die would appear raised on the coin's reverse impression. From the well-defined raised elements it looks to me more likely to have been clashed. If the die was scratched or clashed it is likely that other coins were struck with that altered die unless quality control found it right away and retired it. But in 1811, it is more likely that a marginally altered die like this one would continue in use until it failed completely.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
04/18/2025 9:52 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
I guess they could be from an aggressively polished die?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3628 Posts |
My other pondering is this. Could this be a contemporary counterfeit? If a genuine coin used to make the mold had been scratched, the scratches would transfer, but be raised on copies. That might also explain the pinholes and some of the bumps on the surface. I don't have Davignon's book, but that might be a good starting point to chase that rabbit. EDIT: It might also explain the toning variances. If it is a contemporary counterfeit, you may have hit the jackpot here. Edited by fortcollins
04/19/2025 12:30 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
I suppose that is possible but that is far afield from my small knowledge of numismatics. Thanks to all for your helpful comments.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 2,439 |
Posted 03/29/2025 1:07 pm
