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 Replies: 17 / Views: 898 |
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Valued Member
United States
322 Posts |
I found this 2021 D LSC in change during a recent visit to Kansas City. There appears to be thickening and doubling of the devices in USA----primarily AMERICA. Possible new DDR? Nothing listed on VV, Coppercoins or Wexler with such doubling. I look forward to your comments.      |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5317 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
57574 Posts |
Looks normal to me. I'm not seeing it. I could be wrong though.
Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
04/14/2025 09:03 am
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Valued Member
 United States
322 Posts |
Thanks for your responses E&V and Marve65.
What is noteworthy is the splitting of the base of the letters in AMERICA. Look at the bottoms of A, M, E, R, I and the last A.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1425 Posts |
Your example looks like moderate doubling in all outer reverse devices, check the initials their likely doubled also. The doubling in lower left clockwise very similar to the 2022 P and D Cents. Good eye nice one.
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Moderator
 United States
68814 Posts |
I see some split serifs here, nice DDR. Nice set of eyes spotting this. |
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Moderator
United States
161253 Posts |
Interesting find.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2001 Posts |
I believe it's a DDR, albeit subtle. If I remember correctly, a CCF member Frank (forget his last name) has posted numerous unlisted LSC DDR's that are similar to yours. |
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Valued Member
United States
322 Posts |
THANKS luvmyCAM, Dearborn, jbuck and coin rejector for your responses.  luvmyCAM, you are correct that there is also minor splitting on other of the outer devices on the reverse, but not as obvious as appears on AMERICA. Coin rejector, I would really like to see the other 2021 D LSCs with doubling you mentioned were posted previously. If you or any others in the CC can post those or identify the contributor,I would like to see the posts for comparison. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5317 Posts |
The Initials are normal (they would be fatter on a DDR), the EPU is normal size too (they would be thin on a DDR). With the newer way the the doubled dies are made would the letters even have split serifs? |
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Moderator
United States
68814 Posts |
Glad we could help! |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4416 Posts |
Marve, you can get split serifs with a single squeeze process. I don't know if the exact mechanism is fully understood. For a strong example, look at the 2004-P DDO Peace Medal nickel. One of the things that I've not yet been able to puzzle out is how the perimeter lettering can twist that much without severely distorting central devices like the bust. But it does seem to happen. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5317 Posts |
Quote: For a strong example, look at the 2004-P DDO Peace Medal nickel. Can you even compare a 2004 nickel DDO with a 2021 Shield Cent DDR?  . On the Shield cent DDR's the bottom of the letters get "fatter" instead of showing distinct splits I've noticed........ 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
To my present understanding, the single squeeze hubbing process is the same across all circulation denominations.
The jolted class 9 doubled dies are definitely similar across coins. Lines on shields, lines in doors, doubling on the torch, doubling behind Washington's ear—I believe that's an identical process. Are the distortion class 9 doubled dies also caused the same way across denominations? I don't see why not.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7168 Posts |
I believe the doubling seen here are most likely caused by Die Deterioration, as no enlargment of devices is present. Here is a great read on doubled dies classification by CONECA (THE 9 CLASSES OF DOUBLED DIES) including single squeeze doubled die. https://conecaonline.org/the-9-clas...oubled-dies/And another useful referrence by error-ref Quote:
CLASS IX - SHIFTED HUB DOUBLING:
"This form of doubling happens when a slightly misaligned (tilted) die "pops" into position under the constant pressure of the hub and its thousands of pounds of force." ¹
"It is most often characterized by a slippage of the design, in a cardinal direction - much like the Class IV offset hub doubling. It most often affects centrally located design elements. The main difference, with respect to causation, is that the design is never "picked up" off the die during the hubbing. Rather, it suddenly "slides" into place creating doubling in the design." ¹
Once more there are some differences of opinions among the variety experts. John Wexler writes," Class IX. God Only Knows - This class of doubling is for those doubled dies that are simply unexplained. It is for those extremely few doubled dies that defy logic and common sense. It is where the physical evidence does not support a reasonable conclusion on how the working die was hubbed to produce the secondary image."
Those files that have the Class IX use it for listings of doubled dies that were made by the single squeeze hubbing system. However, this presents a problem for there is a grey area when the U.S. Mint used both the single squeeze and multiple hubbings to make dies. This transitional period extends from before 1986 (the first year that the U.S. Mint reported using the single squeeze hubbing system) to 1997 (when the single-squeeze hubbing was finally and fully implemented at both the Denver and Philadelphia mints for all denominations). This time span contains a lot of doubled dies that cannot be confidently assigned to one or the other hubbing system.
Again, there are some listings in the Class IX doubled dies that contain files for trail dies(wavy steps). We feel that this is incorrect and that trail dies, including what is called wavy steps, are not doubled dies, but a different type of anomaly.
Edited by Chase007
04/14/2025 10:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
870 Posts |
Thanks for the link Chase007. I have a hard time dealing with some of the "modern" split sheriff coins being considered "doubled die". I have a jar full that I keep around just in case I'm wrong> Just my opinion.
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Replies: 17 / Views: 898 |
Posted 04/14/2025 01:29 am
