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1942 Lincoln Cent DDO FS-101?

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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2025  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is not the direction any topic should take, the Forum should always remain an educational tool with open dialog. It is not a personal entity to any member who thinks others should be priviledged and grateful to receive his/her comments.Let's not forget how we all got here and be thankful to those experts who guided us and educated us and brought us to where we are today and they did it without any expectation of gratitude. Let's not trash this Forum with egos...........
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JimmyD's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 05/25/2025  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said Chase.
Let's direct our reply's to answering the question.
I have never in all my years on this forum seen where someone expects gratitude for answering a question,
it's not like they are going out of their way when they answer all the posts anyway.
Edited by JimmyD
05/25/2025 10:22 am
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 Posted 05/25/2025  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A signature feature of the 42 DDO -002 FS-101 is doubling of both eyelids. See the pic below showing these features, and the pic below that with the features circled for clarity. I don't see these features on the OPs coins so they don't appear to be DDO-002. There may be something going with those coins, but not FS-101.

Edited to add: forgot to credit the photo out of courtesy to Variety Vista.

1942-Lincoln-Cent-DDO-FS-101? 1942-Lincoln-Cent-DDO-FS-101?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms
05/25/2025 11:38 pm
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Chase007's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Two areas you have circled are contact marks ,they are not doubling.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  11:07 am  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Two areas you have circled are contact marks ,they are not doubling.

Chase, the circled areas are textbook eyelid doubling on Lincoln cents. Those images are directly from the FS-101 entry on Variety Vista.
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think everyone is talking past each other a little bit, rather than talking with each other. May I offer a couple thoughts to consider?

Lincoln Cents have a staggering number of double die obverses, double die reverses, and repunched mint marks. New examples are still being discovered fairly regularly. There are several things to ponder here.

First, the four major sources of information are Variety Vista, Copper Coins, Wexler, and the Cherrypicker's Guide. ALL of these sources have benefits, but ALL are limited. There is no single source with all the answers for most dates and mints.

Examples:
The Cherrypicker's Guide only lists a few coins from any given year. In some cases, there are well over a hundred additional varieties for that date and mint.
Major varieties similar to the Cherrypicker's Guide selections exist on the other three sites, but lack the popular recognition because they aren't included in the Guide.
For some dates, there is one significant marker to identify coins, but it isn't pictured on some or all of the sites. The big marker for 1936 cents is the "R" of LIBERTY, which can be complete, broken, or rehubbed. Most of the sites don't mention the "R" for varieties other than the three Cherrypicker's Guide, yet there are broken "R" varieties in that group. The big marker for 1941 cents is the second "T" in TRUST. It can be normal (no doubling), doubled intact over broken, doubled broken over intact, or doubled broken over broken. I haven't seen one doubled intact over intact yet, but it wouldn't be a surprising find. Many of the listings omit a photo of the second "T."

Second, none of the major sources have the most important photos: whole obverse and whole reverse photos. This obsession with closeup photos is nice for what closeup photos can do, but stifles the ability to recognize other aspects of a coin that may be important.

Examples:
Two varieties of 1934 cents have prominent die cracks that are not mentioned in any of the sources. These are actually the best first-look pickup for the varieties.
Several dates have varieties with prominent die polishing in areas not affecting the doubling. This polishing is an excellent unaided-eye pickup, but if not mentioned in any of the sources.

Third, all of the major sources love early stage and higher grade coins. Unfortunately, that's not what they look like in average circulated condition from bags or rolls.

Examples:
Bright, shiny die scratches in EDS sometimes look like a string of pearls in MDS and a series of dots in LDS.
Die cracks progress, and may be excellent unaided-eye markers in later die states. Die cracks also can be polished into oblivion or worn into invisibility.

Fourth, all of the major sources have incorrect cross-reference information, and this is more common than any of us would like to hope for.

Tip: before searching any date, create a complete and accurate cross-reference list for all DDOs and all DDRs for that date and mint. It's a pain, but it will save endless frustration later.

Fifth, most of the earlier listings focus on the particular side of the coin at issue, and disregard markers on the pother side that might be helpful. The more recent listings are correcting that problem, but fixing the older listings will take time.

Sixth, just because it isn't listed doesn't mean it isn't a DDO, DDR, or RPM. It can be a new variety.

I'm in the middle of going through a small mountain of 1941 cents right now. There are 30 DDOs on Variety Vista, an additional; 32 DDOs on Copper Coins that are not listed on Variety Vista, and an additional 18 on Wexler's site that don't have photos uploaded yet and may or may not be cross-listed on Variety Vista or Copper Coins. Only 3 are listed in Cherrypicker's Guide. Variety Vista lists 8 DDRs, Copper Coins adds another 8 that aren't on Variety Vista, and Wexler adds 11, but doesn't have photos uploaded yet for 10 of them, and they may or may not be cross-listed on Variety Vista or Copper Coins. None are listed in the Cherrypicker's Guide.

This pattern is duplicated throughout the entire Lincoln Cent series.

After enough time with just one date and mint, sorting the coins gets easier. With the 1936 cents, I look for the the rehubbed "R" in LIBERTY and know immediately that is has to be one of the "Big Three." I worry about which one later. I then look for the broken "R" variety, and know that about 1 in 4 will be a DDO. I then look for thick dates, and know these will be DDOs, and worry about which one later. I then look for any doubling on LIBERTY and the motto, and pull those aside for attribution later. Then it gets weird, and I stare into Lincoln's eyelid for a couple days, and pull those aside. Finally, I make a pass to look for the thick lettering and distended dots that are the telltale signs of DDRs. When all that's done, I make a final pass to look for errors, such as laminations, die chips, Cuds, RCD's, and the rest. Then I roll up the shrapnel to make it go away, and go back and try to attribute the ones I have pulled aside. I use cheat sheets with the same marker for every variety, and that helps. And after all that, I still have a small pile of coins showing minor doubling that don't plainly match any known variety. I could well be missing a pickup and not attributing correctly. Or they could be a different stage than the photos and be missed. Or I could be seeing things (goodness knows, after staring at bronze eyeballs all day, that's possible). Or the coin could have too much circulation damage to spot the useful markers. Or it could be something new.

Here is my suggestion. It and 50 cents may buy a half cup of day old gas station coffee. If the threads show just ONE coin, with full obverse and full reverse photos and the key marker or markers for the date and mint, it will be easier for everyone to match those with the possible listing. If is doesn't readily match that listing, additional photos could be requested or it may be possible for other to match the coin with other listings. That would be one way we can all get on the same page, try to help each other, and provide threads that might be helpful down the road.

Let me close with this. I really appreciate all of the people on here. I learn from every person. What we have in common is more important than anything else. Let's help and support each other.

OK, now I've used a whole day's worth of talking here, so I'll go back to being my introverted self for a while.
Edited by fortcollins
05/26/2025 1:35 pm
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NY Islander's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NY Islander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FTCollins - Thanks for the detailed explanation. I couldn't agree more with the analysis. Particularly in reference to the "speaking past" each other responses by some who've responded to the OP. In my experience the nature of critical analysis and informed debate defaults to the few true experts here. I enjoy informed debate - this is when I learn most on CC.
Questionable, worn and "new" varieties and/or error coins are tough to verify, for the reasons you've very clearly indicated. Over the years I've found there are those on CC whose opinions can be relied on and those who you cannot. I say opinion because unless the coin is in hand even the most reliable experts are making an informed guess. Images can be intentionally or unintentionally altered and can skew even the sharpest eye.
"We are all flawed, some MD and some PMD."
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-makecents-'s Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  4:15 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
-makecents-
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CoinHI's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHI to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some great insightful responses!

We've all been through the learning curve of identifying varieties. Facing a few posts with differing opinions can really speed up your learning process.

One coin per topic is essential for clear, straightforward responses.

I see no doubling on the OP's coins.

Set those coins aside and move on, revisit them later with a fresh perspective and new insights if you want.



"Pride is yoked with callous behavior, as humility is with compassion." St. Gregory Palamas

Top Finds - 1969-S 1c FS-101 http://goccf.com/t/477681 1976 D WQ FS-101 http://goccf.com/t/382777 - 1968 D 1c FS-801 http://goccf.com/t/422254
Cool clashed dies - 1972 D 1c http://goccf.com/t/429855&SearchTerms=CCL
Struck-In Rim Burr - 1969 S 1c http://goccf.com/t/425587&SearchTerms=burr
Floating (Type II) Counterclash - 1978 D 1c http://goccf.com/t/434991&SearchTerms=1978


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ARK102120's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ARK102120 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm a new member, but old viewer of this forum, and one thing I learned is that is very very important to upload a full and sharp image of the obverse and reverse of the coin, doing that you will get a better response from the members.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  8:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To the OP and others: I'm very sorry about that comment I made. I wasn't thinking at the time typing out the comment. I know I came across as a know it all and I am not. I made a mistake and shouldn't have typed out that rude comment. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you'll continue participating on CCF.

If you think your coins are Doubled Dies, I would go have them checked out at a local coin shop. You can also submit your coins to a variety attributer as well for a small fee. You'll have a definite answer from variety experts. That's how I learned about varieties.
Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
05/26/2025 8:09 pm
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/26/2025  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok Folks, lets try and dial this arguing back a bit please, otherwise, I'll lock the topic and call the matter closed.
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NY Islander's Avatar
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 Posted 05/29/2025  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NY Islander to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Errers and Varietys - For what it is worth your is opinion valid and one that I rely on.
On line communication can be at times a beautiful thing and at times frustrating to say the very least. Its a reflection of who we are in a moment. Sometimes we are at our best and sometimes we are not. Your mea culpa means more than any rapid response.
"We are all flawed, some MD and some PMD."
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 05/29/2025  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, NY Islander. I appreciate that. I messed up that day and apologized later on. It was bothering me pretty bad, so I apologized later. Just got too heated in the moment that day. I'm usually not like that. I'll make sure to do better.
Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
05/29/2025 7:50 pm
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-makecents-'s Avatar
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 Posted 05/29/2025  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'll make sure to do better.
That's all anyone can do. Been there, done that....
-makecents-
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