Spain 2 Reales 1718 Charles III - Coin Community Forum

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 949
Albert Pillar of the Community United States 1911 Posts	Posted 07/09/2025 07:10 am I'm at odds with this coin in a couple ways. First, the date doesn't line up with Charles 3rd ( Carlos / Carolus). In a case like this how does one decide if the date is right and the monarch wrong? Or is the monarch right and the date is wrong? The other issue is the very center of the coat of arms. That small triangle part in the center is something I haven't seen among what books & images I have. Edited by Albert 07/09/2025 07:15 am Report this Post to the Staff

realeswatcher Pillar of the Community United States 1962 Posts	Posted 07/09/2025 11:15 am Contemporary counterfeit... which I think you should occur to you given what you always post. Have seen this one several times - it's a mule of a typical 1718 Philip V style lions/castles side with the shield of the Habsburg PRETENDER Charles III... NOT the later Bourbon actual king Charles III. There are in general TONS of contemporary counterfeits of peninsular Spain shield-type (aka "pistareen") 2 Reales... The example below reveals its true nature a bit more clearly! Report this Post to the Staff
Albert Pillar of the Community United States 1911 Posts	Posted 07/09/2025 4:07 pm Yes I know it to be a contemporary counterfeit, but I lack the insight and need clarity from those that have more experience. So now with your kind help, I know what to write and just how to say it on the printed pages. The pretender did cross my mind, but at the time of the post it was time to quit. So I didn't look further into that coat of arms center. Many of these are new to me so I rely on the good nature and willingness to share knowledge from those that know these coins best. Report this Post to the Staff
fireandice556 Valued Member Philippines 80 Posts	Posted 07/12/2025 04:51 am Admin/Mods, permission to piggy back on this post... (related subject) But I will delete or make another one if not allowed I do have a similar coin (not the same variety), but having similar reverse as above. 2R 1711 Carlos-III The Pretender. (KM# 271)-Barcelona Mint This is not my main area of interest, so this is one of those that stayed much on the album for more than 25 years. I was wondering why it only weighed 4.67gms when KM catalog listed this as 6.77g .903 Silver. Another 2R 1720 Philip V (KM#296)-Madrid also weighed only 4.93gms. Were these two coins also considered as contemporary counterfeits, or just devalue/debased coins? Edited by fireandice556 07/12/2025 04:53 am Report this Post to the Staff
realeswatcher Pillar of the Community United States 1962 Posts	Posted 07/15/2025 08:48 am No, not the same variety... instead the correct design for "genuine pretender" Charles III 2R. As with all of the "pistareen" homeland/peninsular Spain 2R types - perhaps even moreso - there ARE lots of contemporary counterfeits that exist for these. However, pieces that would appear to present as "genuine" DO often come in at really low weights, however... 5g or under isn't shocking. I also suspect that for these Pretender issues, aside from reduced weight compared to the older standard (read through the threads I linked below), there was metal debasement. The coloration on your piece, fireandice556, is a little off, esp. on the monogram side... but I think that could be from toning/storage rather than a coppery core showing through (though again, perhaps somewhat debased alloy). Some older threads where ppl posted pistareens for discussion: https://goccf.com/t/143808 https://goccf.com/t/262319 https://goccf.com/t/288180 https://goccf.com/t/436153 Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 07/15/2025 3:37 pm Pistareens are tough sometimes to determine if CCC if not mercuric silvered on the surface or of a German silver alloy. Never really seen one silver plated - BTW. Having said that without obvious surface silvering to signal an automatic CCC of the period comparing low weights and debasement is tough as the weights compared to KM can sometimes be very low. Pistareen weight standards can be variable but almost always never having a weight "above" the KM listed gram value. I generally purchase although not many only the ones composed of a German silver (Cu/Zn/Ni) alloy or mercuric silvering as the primary targets. This could be regal. Weight in most cases is irrelevant but not so for the later bust series of this denomination (2R) where weight is an excellent indicator of their CCC nature - again not so for Pistareens. John Lorenzo, Numismatist. Edited by colonialjohn 07/15/2025 3:39 pm Report this Post to the Staff
fireandice556 Valued Member Philippines 80 Posts	Posted 07/20/2025 08:39 am Thank you very much realeswatcher and colonialjohn for your reply. These nuggets of knowledge are quite informative. Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 6 / Views: 949

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