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Replies: 21 / Views: 1,549 |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
I have been researching mule coins recently (a coin minted with two dies that were never supposed to come together) and I am curious, is there a possibility that any mule coin occurred without the assistance of a mint employee? It seems impossible to me that a coin could be stamped on one side, transferred to the wrong machine, then struck on the other side with the wrong die. I know there are several mule coins out there, most notably the Sacagawea/Washington quarter but it seems to me like this would have had to been intentional rather than a true error. Any thoughts are welcome!
@American Numistmatic Association
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Moderator
 United States
94892 Posts |
Quote: is there a possibility that any mule coin occurred without the assistance of a mint employee? I would say no, as employees are needed to mount the dies in each machine
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Valued Member
 United States
61 Posts |
I agree, I have been struggling to find any evidence of an employee being caught doing this though.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8732 Posts |
Quote: I agree, I have been struggling to find any evidence of an employee being caught doing this though. From what little I have learned over the past several years, I do not think the mint likes airing their dirty laundry.  I think mules are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mint "errors". 
-makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8732 Posts |
By the way, 
-makecents-
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
73747 Posts |
 To CCF! I think that Mule coins are probably intentionally created. I don't really see how it could be accidental.
Errers and Varietys.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
24977 Posts |
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Valued Member
 United States
61 Posts |
the roo does seem more believable, I have mostly researched US coins. Also you thank you for the welcome everybody!
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Moderator
 Australia
16808 Posts |
Quote: It seems impossible to me that a coin could be stamped on one side, transferred to the wrong machine, then struck on the other side with the wrong die. That is indeed impossible, because coins are always struck all-at-once, not one side at a time in a two-stage process. A mule happens when "the wrong die" is inserted into the high-speed coin press that they use to make coins. Both dies (the "incorrect" one and the "correct" one for the other side) strike the blank at the same time, thus creating the mule coin. Human error is required for putting the wrong die in place, and as with many "human errors", it can be done either by genuine accident or deliberately. An accident is entirely possible, as the high-speed presses are designed to take any of the dies which the mint might use to make any of the coins requested of it; the same press might be making nickels today, and dimes tomorrow. Your typical "mule" is probably made when someone simply forgets to swap out one of the dies, when production on a press changes to a different coin. How likely a mule-causing accident can happen depends in part on that specific mint facility's inner workings and processes - how dies for the different denominations and/or different countries are stored, catalogued and accessed, and how they're taken in and out of the presses. Is it just one guy who goes to the die cupboard and rummages around for the correct dies until he finds them, or are there multiple checks with multiple people making sure it's the right die before someone presses the "go" button? The more checks and balances there are, the less likely such errors can occur, and most modern mints have lots of checks and balances in place for this exact reason. But it should be note that "less likely" does not mean "impossible". Wait long enough, and pretty much anything physically possible will happen. Double-obverse and double-reverse mules - coins that are either two-headed or two-tailed - are much harder to make by genuine accident, as the dies for obverses and reverses are physically different in size and shape - putting an obverse die into the reverse die position is literally like putting a square peg in a round hole. two-headed/tailed coins are almost always the result of someone deliberately fooling around with dies, in a coin press that isn't the usual high-speed production press but one which can be manually adjusted to take any old die in either obverse or reverse position.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
73747 Posts |
Good information, Sap. Thank you. 
Errers and Varietys.
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Moderator
 Australia
16808 Posts |
The main problem with any "Error X must have been made by insiders at the mint to make money" conspiracy theory is twofold: (a) how do they actually catch the "error" coins after they are made, when there's no human involvement or intervention in a modern high-speed coin press, and (b) how do they smuggle the coins back out of the mint, when the mint has lots of security screening in place for mint workers which is specifically designed to stop those workers from smuggling coins out of the mint?
This is why I've always adhered to the idea that most mint errors (at least, in modern Western mints like the USA) are genuinely errors, that enter circulation through normal channels and are detected by regular people who happen to notice them in change. I'd find the idea that a mint error is a complete counterfeit, made outside of the official mint using fake dies, to be more probable than the "mint workers did it to make money" conspiracy.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6464 Posts |
Sap, how many true mule coins (not mule clashes) have been found in volume out in the wild? The fact that they escape so infrequently suggests that they are produced by a non-HVM process. Even very serious people mess around for fun occasionally. When I worked in semiconductors, I learned that many microchips were infused with secret, occasionally spectacular art by creative people. Some of it is documented on the Silicon Zoo website. I would hazard a guess that the most remarkable mule coins, found in tiny numbers, were the result of design test strikes. The Mint has been forced to retool designs because they had manufacturing problems—for example, Type 1 bicentennial Ike dollars with thick letters—and there is no guarantee that both coin face designs are available early in the process. Also worth thinking about, a test strike might be removed from the Mint campus for review by public officials or experts. Mule clashes are anyone's guess. Even the most famous ones on the Flying Eagle series appear to still be debated as mischief vs. machinery problems.
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Moderator
 United States
94892 Posts |
Thanks @Sap - I tried to explain that, but cam up short on the words required to do that well. 
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Moderator
 United States
187702 Posts |
Interesting discussion. 
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Moderator
 United States
15392 Posts |
Great explanation Sap. I always learn a lot from your insightful discussions.   to the CCF @ CKcollectibles2
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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Valued Member
 United States
61 Posts |
Thank you for your explanation, Sap! I am just now beginning to dive into the world of error coins and I am looking forward to learning more. My only other question about the mule coin issue is, why would there only be one or two known examples of most mule coins if a die was mistakenly placed in the wrong spot? An example of this is the 2001-D Lincoln cent/Roosevelt dime. It seems to me like if one of these coins escaped the mint, lots would have escaped.
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Replies: 21 / Views: 1,549 |