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A Master Hub Mystery

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Pete2226's Avatar
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3330 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2026  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been attempting to think through some of the implications of the Master Die being produced via CNC milling. One implication, of course, is with respect to the appearance of what Master Die Doubling looks like when produced via the CNC process. (CNCD)

Examples of how CNCD might happen:

• We know that the absence of a fillet in CNC machining can result in tool deviation, tool deflection, vibration, and dimensional inaccuracies. A slight outline around a small section of a device might be a result. (A fillet in CNC machining is a rounded transition (radius) applied to the intersection of a device with the field of the die. The purpose is to eliminate sharp corners which produce stress concentrations, improve fatigue strength, and enhance aesthetics.)

• We know that a "phantom channel" on a die may be caused by tool deflection/spring-back from the cutting tool being under lateral load, backlash in the Machine Axes, or G-code/CAM Post-Processor Error. A "phantom channel" = a short additional outline following the contours of a device such as an eye, a hand/finger, number/letter, or edge of a structure.

I would submit that the following examples of Master Die Doubling could easily be the result of CNC Doubling. (CNCD).

An attendant question RE: this comment at the following listing:

"Comments: WMDO-001 is known on 2022-P Angelou, Ride, Mankiller, and Wong quarters. It is expected, but unconfirmed, on Otero-Warren quarters. Most, if not all, of Angelou and Ride quarters show this master die doubling. It is less common on Mankiller and Wong."

If it is master die doubling, how can it be less common on some examples? Surely all are not examples of die wear or weak strikes? Is this a clue that there is more than one master die for these issues, as that possibility is implied in Mint documents?

COMMENTS WELCOME!

A-Master-Hub-Mystery
Edited by Pete2226
03/29/2026 11:51 am
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jbuck's Avatar
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189053 Posts
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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3330 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2026  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you!
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CoinHI's Avatar
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2735 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2026  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHI to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe an asterisk could be a temporary solution for the attribution sites?

Something like: WMDO-001 (under review / possible CNCD)
Description: Doubling to the north on the last T in TRUST and the first 2 in the date. Slight doubling to the south inside the nostril.
Note: This feature appears on most, if not all, 2022-P Angelou and Ride quarters, but is noticeably less common on Mankiller and Wong quarters. Traditional master die doubling from a single shared master die should be consistent across all designs. The frequency variation suggests it may instead be CNC-induced doubling (CNCD) from multiple master dies or milling artifacts rather than classic master die doubling.

"Pride is yoked with callous behavior, as humility is with compassion." St. Gregory Palamas

Top Finds - 1969-S 1c FS-101 http://goccf.com/t/477681 1976 D WQ FS-101 http://goccf.com/t/382777 - 1968 D 1c FS-801 http://goccf.com/t/422254
Cool clashed dies - 1972 D 1c http://goccf.com/t/429855&SearchTerms=CCL
Struck-In Rim Burr - 1969 S 1c http://goccf.com/t/425587&SearchTerms=burr
Floating (Type II) Counterclash - 1978 D 1c http://goccf.com/t/434991&SearchTerms=1978


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Pete2226's Avatar
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 Posted 03/30/2026  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Maybe an asterisk could be a temporary solution for the attribution sites?

Something like: WMDO-001 (under review / possible CNCD)
Description: Doubling to the north on the last T in TRUST and the first 2 in the date. Slight doubling to the south inside the nostril.
Note: This feature appears on most, if not all, 2022-P Angelou and Ride quarters, but is noticeably less common on Mankiller and Wong quarters. Traditional master die doubling from a single shared master die should be consistent across all designs. The frequency variation suggests it may instead be CNC-induced doubling (CNCD) from multiple master dies or milling artifacts rather than classic master die doubling.


That might work!

But nobody listens!
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Pete2226's Avatar
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3330 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2026  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another snippet RE: Master Dies (from an article on Mint Directors since 1793)

"Joseph F. Menna: The 13th and current chief engraver, Joseph F. Menna, joined the coinage bureau in 2005 as a medallic sculptor. Since 2006, the Mint mothballed plaster models in favor of digital sculpting in the tooling process for directly producing master dies and working dies.

Menna was named chief engraver in February 2019 by Mint Director David J. Ryder."

Coin World April 6, 2026, "From presidential appointee to Mint Director's choice", by Paul Gilkes, Coin World Senior Editor, page 33ff.
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