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1879 Morgan Silver Dollar With Metals Breakdown On Reverse.

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mark44004's Avatar
United States
23 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2009  9:57 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I am putting some coins on ebay and I came across a 1879 Morgan silver dollar that has a metals breakdown on the reverse instead of an eagle. Inside a circle it reads, " 895.8 S., 4.2--G., 100--C. ". Above it in a small banner says "DEO EST GLORIA". It is in really super good shape but not super shiny. Can Anyone give me any info on this coin? Thanks.
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jfransch's Avatar
United States
1801 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2009  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like one of the pattern dollars from 1879. Probably can be found in the reference book by Judd. But beware if it is not certified by one of the bigger TPGs, I would be very wary of a coin like tht on ebay, unless you know the seller. Would be a rare coin if real. Post the ebay listing and I can look it up in the Judd book for you if you like.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6381 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2009  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a so-called Metric Dollar pattern from the Heritage archive. This one was graded Proof-62 by NGC and sold for $2070 in April of 2009. I totally agree with Jfransch; coins like this MUST be certified by a major grading service to ensure authenticity.

1879-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-With-Metals-Breakdown-On-Reverse.

1879-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-With-Metals-Breakdown-On-Reverse.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2009  12:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

That is almost certainly a copy of a goloid metric dollar, a rare pattern coin with an experimental composition. The goloid dollars seem to be the counterfeit du jour coming out of Asia lately. Of course, pics always help
Edited by biokemist6
07/03/2009 01:09 am
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mark44004's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/04/2009  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thank you all for the help. What is this Judd that was mentioned and TPG's? Where can I get a reputable place to get it certified?
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mark44004's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/04/2009  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way, I am in possession of this coin. I got it from my grandmothers estate a number of years ago.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2009  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I got it from my grandmothers estate a number of years ago.


This raises the distinct possibility that the coin might be real; certainly worth exploring. What part of Ohio are you in? We might be able to come up with a reputable local dealer who could give an opinion. One which comes immediately to mind is Executive Coin in Stow, if that's reachable for you.

A common thread in numismatics is the collector who devotes his life to a certain type of coin, and authors the definitive written work on that type. J. Hewitt Judd, MD, was that man for pattern coins. He established the numbering scheme for pattern coins and his work, "United States Pattern, Experimental and Trial Pieces" is the seminal publication in that specialty.

For more, go here:

http://uspatterns.com/index.html
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2009  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would like to see a picture of your coin. HCC Rare Coins in Holland Ohio is another excellent dealer.
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mark44004's Avatar
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 Posted 07/04/2009  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I live in Northeast Ohio. Here is a pic of the coin in question.
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mark44004's Avatar
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 Posted 07/04/2009  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


1879-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-With-Metals-Breakdown-On-Reverse.

1879-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-With-Metals-Breakdown-On-Reverse.
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mark44004's Avatar
United States
23 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2009  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Also, Is it wise to clean this coin or should I leave it as is and let a pro do it?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 07/04/2009  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also, Is it wise to clean this coin or should I leave it as is and let a pro do it?


Do not touch it. If it's real, a pro wouldn't touch it either.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6381 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2009  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin looks pretty good although the pictures need to be larger in order to get a better idea about authenticity. An experienced dealer or savvy collector would check specific gravity and would examine the surfaces and edges for evidence of casting, since cast forgeries probably exist. You should also check with a magnet since many fake coins are made from steel alloys that are magnetic. Obviously, an authentic silver coin won't be attracted to a magnet.

If everything checks out the next step would be to submit the coin for grading and authentication to PCGS, NGC, or ANACS. Hopefully they would slab it as genuine. It appears to be somewhat worn (unusual for a proof pattern coin) so it would not grade as high as the PR-62 example from Heritage. I expect it would get a PR-45 or so based on your images. Good luck!
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mark44004's Avatar
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 Posted 07/05/2009  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mark44004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did the magnet test and it isn't steel. So, who do I contact to get this thing certified in the Northeast Ohio area?
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gawd0wns's Avatar
Canada
464 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2009  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gawd0wns to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To have your coin certified and slabbed there are three main companies: NGC, PCGS, and ANACS

http://www.ngccoin.com/
http://www.pcgs.com/
http://www.anacs.com/

I would personally go with NGC or ANACS. ANACS will slab any coin, cleaned or not, whereas PCGS and NGC will not slab cleaned coins, excavated coins, and I forget what else. Check out their sites and give them a call.
Edited by gawd0wns
07/05/2009 10:19 am
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2009  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope for your sake I am wrong but your coin looks wrong to me. The strike is "flat" and the details don't seem to jump off the coin like they should on an original. Have you weighed the coin? Can you post bigger/better images for us? This is a coin that is often counterfeited (coming out of China). You need to do your research before you spend the $30 on a TPG opinion. Weigh the coin, post the pictures here and let the members of the Forum give you some more info. Do you know how your grandmother came to own the coin? This is not a coin you would findin a cash register at the local supermarket. Is their a receipt from a reputable coin dealer in her belongings?
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