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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,330 |
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New Member
United States
24 Posts |
Finally! I was able to get better pictures. The 5x magnifying glass didn't do the trick quite as good as the 10x magnifier. Now you guys will finally be able to crush my dreams by telling me it's some sort of error other than doubling.  But atleast I'll know.  Pictures: Sorry for the size of the pictures, more at : http://s466.photobucket.com/albums/...101/?start=0What appears to be doubling in Liberty  What appears to be doubling in 2004  What appears to be doubling in WE  Another picture of doubling in Liberty Sorry for the hair. That's just my luck  Doubling in 2004?  Edited by Bison101
08/15/2009 11:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1952 Posts |
I cant tell for sure but it looks like Machine double to me
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1807 Posts |
It does look like Machine Doubling. Notice how the letters are reduced in size from the doubling. Loose die's cause this. |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Looks like MD to me too. John1 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
It could be a coin wrapper touched certain areas of the obverse? Seem like the same distance from the rim is affected. But larger images might help. It would be nice to be able to compare it to a normal one and see what is going on?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
It's not a doubled die and the easiest thing to point you toward as proof is that the star shows no doubling at all. Also, there is no separation or split at the tip of the 2. Also, the Zeros are distorted at the bottom, the outer edge at the bottom of the Zeros is where the normal edges should be. The part that makes the zeros appear doubled is pushed up onto the bottom of the zeros, giving the doubled look to them. This is either Machine Doubling or a touch of Die Deterioration Doubling. Thanks, Bill Edited by foundinrolls
08/16/2009 1:42 pm
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New Member
 United States
24 Posts |
Bill, I do think that is Die Deterioration because in that same roll I found many coins with grease marks on them and there was one coin where the whole reverse was basically covered in grease. I have found only 4 of these coins out of 500. But maybe it was from the die. Thanks |
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Valued Member
United States
224 Posts |
I have had several rolls and still have quite a few of the "Hand Shake" Nickels with similar doubling on all of the Reverse Lettering around the rim and towards the center of the coin. It appears very similar to Distorted Hub Doubling but even though the doubling is not like Machine Doubling because it is thicker and rounded, there are no signs of Split Serifs. Therefore, I believe that it is due to Die Deterioration! It can't be Machine Doubling when all of the letters are doubled towards the center of the coin. Frank |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1807 Posts |
Quote:It can't be Machine Doubling when all of the letters are doubled towards the center of the coin. Good point! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5626 Posts |
The advice given is from some of the best in the house, I would like to see some more clear pictures of the word Liberty and the date, especially the 2 close up.Just my opinion.
I am not a expert and do not profess to be, I simply reserve my decision till some clearer pictures are put up to examine, Mike...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
They aren't doubled toward the center of the coin. Imagine that you are microscopic and walking on the surface of the coin. Start walking at what should be the bottom of the letters, now take a step toward the rim. That is what the doubling does, it moves toward the rim and not toward the center of the coin.
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective.
Thanks,
Bill
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New Member
United States
24 Posts |
I believe I left a link for more pictures. Check that out. I am unwilling to take more pictures, because my eyes are hurting from the glare. Thanks. No one told me the link was broke! Sheesh. Here's more pics:    Edited by Bison101
08/22/2009 8:44 pm
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Valued Member
United States
224 Posts |
Quote:
foundinrolls...They aren't doubled toward the center of the coin. Imagine that you are microscopic and walking on the surface of the coin. Start walking at what should be the bottom of the letters, now take a step toward the rim. That is what the doubling does, it moves toward the rim and not toward the center of the coin.
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective.
Thanks,
Bill I was referring to the direction of the doubling (Secondary Image), not from it's starting point and the direction it traveled! I guess that my' explanations are often mis-understood as I state the doubling opposite of Coneca, CopperCoins, the CherryPicker's Guide (i.e. Counter-Clockwise spread, Clockwise spread, etc.) as I am referring to the Secondary Image created by the doubling. Now, correct me if I am wrong! If a coin receives one extra strike (one only) from a Die creating Machine (Strike) Doubling say on the Obverse, that doubling or Secondary Image should be in one direction only, right?! It is either North, South, East, West, Clockwise or Counter-Clockwise on the coin, right?! Therefore, if a coin only receives one extra strike from the Die and exhibits doubling or a Secondary Image on all of the Lettering as well as the Date, it should only be in one direction (i.e. North, South, East, West, Clockwise or Counter-Clockwise), right?! Therefore, if the doubling or Secondary Image is towards the center or towards the rim all of the way around the coin and it is not from Hub Doubling, then it can't be from Machine Doubling alone, right?! It would either have to be Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration Doubling combined or Die Deterioration alone, right?! Based on the earlier and later pics from the OP, it appears that the doubling on the OP's coin is a product of both Machine and Die Deterioration Doubling! However, on the Nickels that I wrote about, there was no evidence of Machine Doubling whatsoever and the doubling (Secondary Image) was thicker and more rounded on all of the Letters towards the center of the coin. Since it was not from Hub (Distorted) Doubling (no Split Serifs whatsoever), it must have been Die Deterioration Doubling alone! If you wonder why I use the word "was" in referring to the Nickels, it is because I sold my' entire Coin Collection on Friday at the Coin Show in Dalton, GA and every specimen of the Nickels are gone. Frank Edited by huntsman53
08/23/2009 10:55 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Frank, No...the die can chatter as we call it causing the doubling to be random in some cases. Going back to these images, look at the OD of the word "GOD". Look at how the line that is what causes the apparent doubling takes away from the shape of the letters. Note how the line of doubling is closer to the opening of the D and the O at the bottom of each letter. Those letters are damaged by the movement of the die. Also note that there is no doubling at the top of the letters that would correspond to the doubling on the bottom of the letters had this been a doubled die. This applies to all the letters and numerals on the coin. Also, Machine Doubling is not caused by an extra strike of the die. It is caused by a shift, or slight twist or hop of the die at the moment of strike. It can also be caused as the coin is ejected from the die right after it is struck. The whole premise that Machine Doubling is like a double strike is not accurate. In my first response, up above, I indicated that this coin had both the effects of Machine Doubling as well as Die Deterioration Doubling. Thanks, Bill Edited by foundinrolls
08/25/2009 4:18 pm
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,330 |
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Posted 08/16/2009 01:47 am
