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An Argument For The Adoption Of Titanium Coinage

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Valued Member

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 Posted 01/01/2010  4:55 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coretj to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I believe we should have our coins switched over to Titanium!
I think we should ease into this slowly with the introduction of a Titanium $5.00 Coin.
This coin should be the same size as the old Silver Dollars.

I know the biggest problem people had with those was the coins would weight down their pockets for just a buck. So what is the answer?

We make a super light, super strong Titanium coin !

Titanium = around $8.50 per pound

Titanium has a weight to mass ratio of less than half that of silver.

The Silver dollars weighed in at 26.73g...
A Titanium coin of the same size would weigh a little less than a Kennedy half dollar.

It would also be:
stronger than steel
Hypoallergenic
tarnish proof
and extremely more durable than any other coin currently minted ( possibly doubling or even tripling the expected life of circulation coins)

My Personal choice for design would be The Master of Lightening himself, the Man that illuminated the World by inventing AC Electricity ---> Nikola Tesla on the obverse.

And a Tesla coil on the reverse shooting lightening bolts into a V pattern to note the denomination.
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there any country that uses that metal in their coins?
John1
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


at least titanium has some metal value above that of CU/NI and zinc.

Im not sure what they would use to strike the coins up though the steel dies they use now would never do it.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Titanium would be way too hard to use for anything besides a low mintage collector coin. Depending on the denomination, dies are used to strike anywhere from ~150,000 to 1,000,000 coins, keeping in mind that the dies are composed of hardened tool steel. Steel dies would not last very long striking titanium and dies made of titanium would not be practical either.
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Adam_E's Avatar
United States
4846 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote: This coin should be the same size as the old Silver Dollars.
you never want to make 2 coins the same size because a machine could take that silver dollar as that 5 dollar coin

the same thing happened when I was in ireland! I got an old worthles 10pence coin that had no value and it took it as a 2 pound coin! of course I took advantage of this and got as many as I could and gaind like 40pounds off of nothing!
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/01/2010  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will be splitting the posts out of this thread which are discussing the constitutional aspects of coinage , you will find the thread in the GD forum.

Please do not continue the conversation here.

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ratman4762's Avatar
United States
2520 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratman4762 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Edited and replaced where it belongs:

As for titanium, I know Austria has struck some Bimetallic coins using it...So it can be done. I've also read of the problems trying to roll it out into sheets to punch planchets from. This would cause problems and expenses for mass production.


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paul's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/01/2010  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paul to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love this idea! I should just go Lord Baltimore II on the US and start minting my own coins in titanium. Anybody know where I can pick up an old minting machine?
Valued Member
United States
436 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coretj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Titanium would be way too hard to use for anything besides a low mintage collector coin. Depending on the denomination, dies are used to strike anywhere from ~150,000 to 1,000,000 coins, keeping in mind that the dies are composed of hardened tool steel. Steel dies would not last very long striking titanium and dies made of titanium would not be practical either.

Well currently the blanks get softened by heating, why can't the same be done with a titanium blank?
Valued Member
United States
436 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coretj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you never want to make 2 coins the same size because a machine could take that silver dollar as that 5 dollar coin


This is a good point I never thought of.... so then we need to make the coin a millimeter smaller in diameter than the old dollar coin.
Valued Member
United States
436 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coretj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I love this idea! I should just go Lord Baltimore II on the US and start minting my own coins in titanium. Anybody know where I can pick up an old minting machine?

Kempler.com
but you will also need an upsetting press, and a transfer engraver.
Valued Member
United States
436 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2010  10:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coretj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And as far as the dies being too weak to get the job done, can we just forge the coins?
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DNA's Avatar
United States
2734 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2010  03:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DNA to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you never want to make 2 coins the same size because a machine could take that silver dollar as that 5 dollar coin

1. The old Silver Dollar has a lot more than $5 worth of silver in it!

2. Vending machines detect electro-magnetic alloy 'signatures', and
have done so for almost a century now. Titanium-based coins would have
a different electro-magnetic 'signature' than Silver-based or
Copper-based coins.

Titanium would make an excellent 'hardening' agent to add to existing coins.
Even 5% titanium would add durability and lessen weight.
Edited by DNA
01/02/2010 03:46 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2010  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there any country that uses that metal in their coins?
John1

The Pobjoy Mint, using it's flag-of-convenience the British colony of Gibraltar, issued the first titanium coin as part of it's Y2K series in 1999. Example on BMC. Many other NCLT coins have featured the metal since.

Titanium takes the anodizing process very well, so many of the recent titanium collector coins have been produced in all sorts of funky colours.

However, nobody uses titanium for normal, everyday, circulation coinage. It's just too expensive.

Quote:
Titanium = around $8.50 per pound

While titanium might look cheap "on the shelf", actually doing anything useful with it is expensive. That's why the only things titanium is used for these days are specialist applications where money is no object and it can't really be replaced with anything else (like surgical implants and spaceship parts). The price of titanium "metal sponge" is five bucks a kilogram; the price of a sheet of solid pure titanium suitable for punching coin blanks out of is much higher. Further to the cost, the scissel (the stuff left over with all the holes punched in it) would be expensive to melt down and recycle; it would probably be cheaper to throw it away and buy new sheets (creating a mountain of waste).

Pure titanium is simply too tough to make mass-produced coins out of. It has a high degree of "shape memory" - you hit it (like between two coin dies) and it just bounces right back into it's old shape once the pressure is released. You've got to keep hitting it, again and again (or hit it with incredibly high pressures) to make it "forget" and take a new shape. They can get away with it for low-mintage collector coins, because the mint can afford to take their time and recoup whatever increased costs working with titanium causes by simply increasing the coin price. These options wouldn't be possible for a mass-produced circulation coin, where high speed and low cost is critical.

Quote:
And as far as the dies being too weak to get the job done, can we just forge the coins?

Besides the increased cost of having heated blanks, you wouldn't actually get much benefit out of it. You can't "forge" titanium in the conventional sense; at least, not on this planet. One of titanium's weaknesses is that in a normal oxygen atmosphere, it starts to burn at about 400 degrees C, well below the temperature it would start to soften at. Nitrogen (the other major component of normal air) also makes pure titanium brittle, so you'd have to enclose the whole coin press in an argon chamber, which would be both expensive and time-consuming.

Alloying titanium with other elements might work, and give you lighter, tougher coins - but anytime you add titanium into the mix, you always increase the cost, of making the alloy, working with it, and recycling the unwanted remainder material (or the old, worn-out coins). We just don't have the technology to do it cheaply.

In short: there are plenty of cheaper coinage metal alternatives. Steel, aluminium, ceramic, plastic...
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2010  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you never want to make 2 coins the same size because a machine could take that silver dollar as that 5 dollar coin

Wouldn't be a problem because of the extreme weight difference.


Quote:
1. The old Silver Dollar has a lot more than $5 worth of silver in it!

The Ike dollar doesn't.


Quote:
2. Vending machines detect electro-magnetic alloy 'signatures', and have done so for almost a century now.

More like maybe thirty years, possibly a little less.


Quote:
Well currently the blanks get softened by heating, why can't the same be done with a titanium blank?

Because even after "softening" they will sill be much harder than any of the current alloys and still be very destructive to the dies.
Pillar of the Community
United States
505 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2010  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Frazzle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess your looking for a design like this tesla medal..



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