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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,478 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
Attached please find images of a 20-cent piece that I acquired a while back. The grade asserted by the seller was a VF-20/30. I am revisiting the coin, and am tossed between a grade of F-12 and VF-20, yet at the same time am a bit weary because the coin appears to have been amateurishly cleaned... I am interested as to what others may think...? Thanks, kindly.    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1490 Posts |
As to the grade it appears to be a slider between F and VF. I have David Bowers new book "Grading Coins By Photograph" and he states there is some debate whether a full liberty is needed for the grade of VF. He states PCGS and ANA require a full liberty before they assign a grade of VF. I think you need more of Liberty to show in order to confidently give it a VF grade. As to whether its been cleaned before there are some hair lines present to the right of the shield. The splotchiness of the dirt around the edges of the obverse and reverse look as though some attempts to clean this have taken place. I am not certain of this so I would like to see others comments on this point. If it has been cleaned it has retoned to a pleasing gray. Nice coin. |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
I'm going to say F-12 all the letters in LIBERTY are just barely visible.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3233 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1055 Posts |
I feel that this coin has no doubt been cleaned. It looks like the "cleaner" made a tight circular motion just left of the cap on obv. Plus diagonal hairlines at the first star. It looks like the rev was cleaned less intensely the left wing looks like it took the brunt of it. I agree with F-15/ boarderline VF cleaned.
I hope you didn't buy it as an original...
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
731 Posts |
Folks -
Thanks for the guidance. And I concur with all statements re: cleaning.
Also, nothwithstanding input otherwise in the thread, I am going to adhere to the standard that requires LIBERTY to be readable if it were to have received any grading higher.
Therefore, I believe this specimen could be classified as an "F-12 minus that has been cleaned".
The specimen was purchased in a lot; fortunately, the cost paid for it was/is commensurate.
Thanks again, it is appreciated.
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
I think it's a much higher grade, but weakly struck. Many higher VF and even XF coins have weak or missing letters of liberty. I'd grade it XF-40 or so with a mushy strike. Notice how there isn't extreme flattening on the legs and chest where there normally is on worn F-12 or F-15 coins. Looks like it may have been lightly cleaned long ago but not too bad.
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
This coin is no doubt a solid VF in my mind. I don't think it makes XF, but it's well out of the F-12/15 range. I'd be willing to bet a reputable TPG would give it a VF-25/30. Possibly an old cleaning, but not bad at all imo. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
One thing to remember about the double dimes is that LIBERTY is not incuse like other Seated coinage, it is in relief so it is one of the first details to start wearing down. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
Thanks again for the additional input. Consultation with the RedBook 2010 (pg. 158) provides the following: F-12: Some letters of LIBERTY possibly visible. VF-20: LIBERTY readable but partly weak. EF-40: LIBERTY mostly sharp. Only slight wear on high points of coins. Given this, any additional input? Thanks, kindly. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
The grading guidelines in that book are quite generic, and you have to look at much more than 1 design element to determine the grade imho. Also, the strike/die state makes a big difference when determining a technical grade via device detail. There is a lot of detail in the reverse eagles breast and feathers, and the rims are full with clear denticles. There are a lot of details on liberty as well. I would recommend searching the heritage archive regarding certified 20 cent pieces. I think you will find that yours is quite in line detail wise with certified VF pieces. Here is an ANACS VF-20 on ebayhttp://cgi.ebay.com/1875-S-20C-PIEC...CE_W0QQitemZ250573647352QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item3a575a6df8 yours has better details. it's also not far off from this PCGS VF-35 http://cgi.ebay.com/1875-S-20-cent-...35_W0QQitemZ330381605145QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCoins_US_Individual?hash=item4cec473919 Edited by johnny54321
02/04/2010 02:46 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
All of the other details other than LIBERTY are XF.
It seems that LIBERTY is a major point to consider.
Taking into account everything LIBERTY and all other detail I'm going to say VF-39,9999999999999999999
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
IMO, the details on his coin are stronger than the PCGS VF-35. That one has very little liberty remaining and less obverse detail, though about equal on the reverse.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
731 Posts |
Thanks for the input folks, points well taken. The certified examples from ebay and Heritage archive certainly clarify. I believe now my specimen is not a F-12, but rather higher... |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,478 |
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Posted 02/03/2010 08:37 am
