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Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Bryan,

The 1913 Shield nickel would be considered illegal tender then, too, by your description. There has been no attempt to destroy any of the five that I know of. Is there some difference between them and the supposed aluminum cents that were made?

Jim

well one thing its actually the Liberty Niickel not the " Shield nickel" you said. Another thing you are mistaken, these were known to be minted by the mint and was known to have gotten out into circulation it was just that they were not supposed to be minted and was minted in error. The United states never tried to recover these and destroy them as they did the with the 1974 aluminum cent (which wasn't ever supposed to leave the mint in the first place as the 1933 St Gaudens wasn't) so you may want to read up on the subject a little also. Trust me the Govt can definitely confiscate any 1974 Aluminum cent that comes to light. There has been one that I know of that has been graded and as far as I know it hasn't been confiscated but I believe they could if they ever took a notion to do so since these were never meant to leave the mint just as the 33 St Gaudens wasn't supposed to
Pillar of the Community
steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
these (the 1913 nickels) were known to be minted by the mint and was known to have gotten out into circulation it was just that they were not supposed to be minted and was minted in error.



Quote:
since these (the aluminum cents) were never meant to leave the mint just as the 33 St Gaudens wasn't supposed to


I'm not following your logic. The 1913 nickels weren't supposed to be minted, so that is why the government didn't go after them?

Or the aluminum cents *were* supposed to be minted, but just not leave the mint, so that is why the government has gone after them before?

The aluminum cents are known to have gotten into circulation, correct?

Of course trying to understand the logic behind government action may be folly in itself. :)

Edited by steve199
06/24/2010 1:28 pm
Bedrock of the Community
biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1913 Liberty nickels were probably clandestinely minted by a Mint employee but there are also other theories that would completely legitimize them.

In early January 1913 it was perfectly legal to make a 1913 Liberty Head nickel at the Mint. As Lee E Hewitt,founder of the Numismatic Scrapbook Magazine and no-nonsense observer of the numismatic scene, said a number of times, under practices then in effect at the Mint, all one had to do was to exchange another date of five-cent piece for a 1913 Liberty Head. Although none had been made in quantity for circulation, in early 1913 the Liberty Head motif was the standard design in use, the "Buffalo" nickel not yet having been either perfected as to design or issued for circulation. The first "experimental" Indian-Buffalo nickels were struck on January 7, 1913, but production for circulation did not take place until after February 15, as there were problems with the design.1 For someone in the Medal Department of the Mint to have struck a few 1913 Liberty Head nickels for cabinet purposes early in January 1913 would have been neither unusual nor illegal. The Liberty Head motif was the official design until it was replaced with the Indian-Buffalo motif, and this did not happen until well into February 1913.
http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article2962.chtml


The 1974 Aluminum cents are an entirely different critter. Technically, they are prototype patterns that were minted to test the feasibility of changing the Lincoln Cent composition from copper(brass) to aluminum. The switch was rejected and the Mint recalled all of the cents. A problem occurred with the recall though because a number(2-3 dozen) had been distributed to various members of Congress sitting on the financial committees that regulate coinage. A few examples were not returned by Congressional members and one of those examples is the only one to make it into public hands.

A Capitol police officer noticed a Congressman accidentally drop some change from his pocket one day and attempted to return it to the Congressman but he told the officer to keep it. One of those coins was the 1974 aluminum cent. The officer's family revealed the existence of the coin a few years ago and had it grade by ICG as AU58 and labeled the "Toven Specimen", it has since been regraded by PCGS as MS62. The Secret Service so far has made no attempt to seize the coin, probably because the family has never attempted to sell it. If they were to put it up for auction, the Secret Service could very well step in.

The Mint for more than 30 years has considered all 1974 Lincoln aluminum cents subject to seizure, but the
bureau has no enforcement powers, so the matter will be left up to the U.S. Secret Service to pursue, if the
agency so desires. Coin World learned the issue has been under investigation by the Secret Service's Criminal
Division since mid-July, but no decision has been reached as to what course of action might be taken, if
anything.
"The position of the United States Mint regarding aluminum one-cent pieces, bearing the year 1974, has been
consistent for the nearly three decades since the agency minted them," the Mint's chief counsel, Daniel P. Shaver,
told Coin World soon after ICG's July 1 announcement. "The United States Mint produced these pieces solely as
experimental prototypes. None of these prototype coins was ever issued by the secretary of the Treasury or
otherwise lawfully released for private ownership. Accordingly, the United States Mint regards all of these pieces
as property belonging to the United States and, as such, no one may lawfully circulate, sell, buy, or own them.
"
Moreover, because the United States Mint produced these pieces pursuant to its mission of performing a
constitutional power reserved to the federal government, no party may acquire any right or title to one of these
pieces, regardless of how the party obtained it. It is therefore the United States Mint's position that any person
who possesses one of these aluminum pieces is obligated to return it to the ... Mint."

http://financialservices.house.gov/...071906bd.pdf
Edited by biokemist6
06/24/2010 3:11 pm
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steve199's Avatar
United States
1882 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add steve199 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Bio. I understand the history between the two is completely different. Just trying to understand one being illegal to own, and the other not.

It wasn't unusual or illegal for the 5 nickels to be struck. It also wasn't illegal for the aluminum cents to be struck.

Were the 1913 nickels ever issued by the secretary of the Treasury or
otherwise lawfully released for private ownership? What if they really were, as some stories say, snuck out of the mint?
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19943 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  3:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
on the other hand, I just thought badthad just had the worst day of his life?


That darned avatar! I think it'd take me more than a fifth of Jack to get there. LOL
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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Bedrock of the Community
BadThad's Avatar
United States
19943 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back to the topic...

Sorry to tell you, but you do not have an aluminum 1974 cent. What you do have is a 1974 cent that has been plated with something. It's very common to find plated cents and people get all excited over them....until they are educated by experienced collectors. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's the truth. You have a better chance of winning the lotto 5 times and getting hit by lightning 5 times than to have a 1974 aluminum cent.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
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Pillar of the Community
spaceace's Avatar
United States
797 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  4:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spaceace to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to agree with badthad, it would be astronomical odds to get one of those cents.
Maybe it will get you into coin collecting and something good can come of it.
Edited by spaceace
06/24/2010 4:10 pm
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nod2003's Avatar
United States
3294 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have there been incidents where people have minted their own aluminum 1974 cents, making dies and everything?
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Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lol, forget the coin! This guy's daughter poured her heart out! Really..
Valued Member
twinsrule's Avatar
United States
120 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twinsrule to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with libertad. Its the thought that counts.
New Member
Pearlapik's Avatar
United States
11 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pearlapik to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
LOL to you guys, I understand its hard to believe. You dont have to. Just wondering how good this site for me...I will show a picture soon. Thank you! for the nice people here.
Locked
822 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scubu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just wondering how good this site for me...

Tell you what, go on over to the PCGS forums and post your story. Be sure to post all the whiny stuff too. You'll be back here before you can say "I Love Coin Community"...
Pillar of the Community
harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hahaha...wow, this is SO familiar. There was the guy that came on here jerking everyone around saying he had a 1933 double eagle etc...

Got everyone worked up into a nice froth until the moderators had to shut it down.
Valued Member
Fatboy's Avatar
United States
313 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fatboy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Biokemist6 being new to this that was very helpful!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2010  9:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone deserves respect and a good warm welcome here. So I say welcome to CCF Pearlapik.
We all at one time got excited over a coin whether it turned out to be what we hoped it would be or not.
I hope that people here help you understand what you have received from your daughter in a kind way and that you stay around to enjoy the family atmosphere this site mostly always provides.
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