Clashed Dies And Die Cracks

Ceylon62,

Rarity and interest drive price in numismatics. It's no different for Vams. There are examples where interest overshadows rarity, i.e., the 1888-O VAM 4 Hotlips. There are way too many examples to justify the selling price. But folks keep paying a premium just to "have one". This is a case where interest exceeds supply. For many Vams it's just the opposite and no premium applies.

In the realm of clashes, the King is the 1889-P VAM 23A which can fetch a cool $12K for an EF example. But good luck finding one. No other obverse clash carries this kind of premium. There are several reverse 'E' clashes that remain pricey. The 87-P VAM 1B "weak E" being the best example. They are hard to spot and can still be found online and at shows ($6K in AU).

Is 'that' what you call radical Gene? What about something like a scarface? Now 'that' is radical.

Maybe you meant radial and Ceylon took it as radical? Big difference....Tires are "radial", referring to 'perimeter to center via radius'...... while "radical" refers to 'me'.

Gene, Well I took it as "radical" instead of radial. My mistake as well.

Any way - The pics that were up late yesterday are diff than this morning.

Seated, I like that 89 P - never seen that one.

Thank you 2 as always.

Peace

Gene,
I have been spending a lot time looking at the clashes and ended up with un attributed 84-O 37A / 5C and 1900-O 15A where the clash of the lips on the wreath is just awesome (full bold transfer). The obverse die split on the 84-O is rather neat as well.

However, I still cannot figure the reverse clashes (designer initial and the "u" s t clashes) and the corresponding (u s t) on the obverse with some other coins. It's just weak, but there is something in that area and I need confirmation (what else to look for).

Any help would be appreciated by you or anyone else who sees this.

Peace

Gene et al, I Please use your imagination here as I have no pics.

Got a 1904 O awhile back and I am at a stopping point on this one at VAM 33A. Should I be looking at any others VAM's as there is a clash / spike connected to the chin (1/4 of the way in (draw a line down from nostril area) towards the neck line) and strong clashing on the reverse as well?

Left wreath area 2nd set of leaves from top of the leaf has a big chunk almost like an extra twig (more than the other one I have of the clashed lip). Also the area between the 2nd and 3rd set of leaves has strong clash marks closer towards the wreath in 3 broken formations.

I know the die cracks do not count, but this has die cracks started in various spots both the obverse and reverse as well. Thanks

http://www.vamworld.com/1904-O+VAM-33A

Peace

Ceylon, I understand that you ask the exclusive assistance of Gene here, and Gene knows vams far better than I do, but I do understand a few basic principles about coining that may preclude either you or Gene from brain strain on this one.

If I may suggest; no VAM can be identified based on clashing. Clashing is an effect of the press, and is not inherent in the die.

Any clash that appears on any given Morgan is subject to appear on any other Morgan of any year, mint mark and variiety in exactly the same location. This is a precondition of the hubbing of the dies, causing all obverse dies to be of 'nearly' identical topography to all other obverse dies. (Same principle with reverse dies).

Refer to the overlay that SeatedNut provided early on page 1 of this thread. Notice that the red circles that he added have the similarity of all being approximately 1/3 of the way from the denticles to the center of the die.

A person could (instead of drawing little red circles here and there at this distance from denticles to die center) draw one large red circle encompassing the center of the die at the same distance to denticles.

Consider this big red circle the clash ring. Just as tectonic plates outline the 'ring of fire' on the surface of the Earth, This large red circle is where clashes will manifest themselves on a Morgan.

Clashes ( letter clashing for instance) will normally occur in 'almost' the exact same place on all Morgans (due to proper alignment of upper to lower die prior to striking), but die rotation can occur, causing the clash to move around on the big red circle (even in the case of the same VAM).

OZ could testify to this (I believe) as in the case of the various die states of 1882CC vam-2 in which case different degrees of rotation come into play on the same VAM. I don't recall if the either die of this VAM was clashed, but if so, the clash would 'move' indicating different states of this die pairing.

Edited to add: as usual, my replies are so lengthy that I am a day late and a dollar short by the time I hit the "post reply" button.

Gene, You do have too love the (G) clash :)