Orleans Strikes

Well, it is pretty obvious that we all have differing views on what annealing really is, what basining is, and probably every other process involved in the making of a coin. Depending on the source of information, folks will assemble their own set of 'facts'. Discussion then, carried out with preconceived beliefs, is destined to culminate only in argument, accomplishing nothing.

Die varieties for instance is something I have a very open mind to as I do not know any of them (and therefor will accept, rather than challenge a point), EXCEPT the 8TF, the '78S long nocks, and the 89P. I learned and remember these particular varieties, and now have a closed mind as to their attribution. I cannot discuss these with anyone else who feels that they also know these varieties unless we agree (and then there is nothing to discuss).

edited to add:

So I'll ask a question each on the terms anneal, basin, and hub, and decide for yourself the answers:

Is not the steel or silver already hard before annealing commences?
What was the origin of the dish shaped discs used for basining?
What caused Morgan remake the original hubs over, and over again?

Okay, very good Gene, and although I didn't really want you to post your findings, but just to consider the question by yourself, it is much better that I could have put it, and I agree with your new understanding.
Now consider this as the way I see it:

Annealing is a process of softening a metal by heating it to a specific temperature (depending on the type of metal), and then holding the metal at that specific temperature for a specific time period. The reason for softening the metal is so the metal can be worked (shaped, cut, ground, etc). Internal stresses, (inherent in the molecular structure of the metal) are caused by crystal defects. This heating effectively eliminates these defects by breaking them down. Through recrystalization, (made possible by sustained heat), they nucleate to replace those deformations. If left to anneal for too long past recrystalization, the new lattice crystals will grow and coarsen, the metal will be weak, and be susceptible to fissure.

There are many types and methods of annealing, I am not a metallurgist, and going any deeper into it would strain me and bore anyone reading to the brink of coma. Cooling is critical in the rehardening of the metal after annealing is complete. This could be done in the controlled environment of slow cooling in the oven, or quench cooling in water, air or oil. Too rapid a cooling will result in brittle surfaces, too slow will result in a softer product. Steel, being a highly ferrous material should probably be allowed to cool in an open oven as it is cooling, however, I doubt that this was always the case, especially in March of 1878 with the panic to produce working dies.






Okay Mike, you have already given your answer, so consider my thoughts as you have solicited:

Basining was a means of controlling die relief and subsequent coin profile. Overbasining causes loss of design elements. The earliest dies (made from the earliest hubs) were of high relief, and basining was not effective in providing the proper radius to the dies. The hubs were reworked, cut down in profile, and reimpressed with the contemporary lower relief design of the other hub set, becoming the 7 over 8TF with obverse star doubling. The reverse dies (8TF) already made from the first hubs had to be reworked by hand after basining to add detail (tiny feathers) to the designs that were ground away during basining.


The dish shaped disks are called polishing plates, they were created at the Philadelphia Mint and sent along in shipments of dies and collars to the branch mints. They were of specific curvature and radius, and oddly enough, in the diameter of approximately eight inches (reminiscent of a tool used in the creation of the hubs). Their purpose was to 'ensure' proper radius of the die for basining and subsequent polishing repairs of same.
The "weakly struck center coins with full rims, typical of the New Orleans Mint" were the result of improper annealing of the silver planchets causing the planchets to be too hard to bring up the designs in.

"The fully struck center design and rounded rims typical of the San Francisco Mint" are new and unheard of to me until now, but I would think that since the die rim is not part of the die face, and actually encompasses the die neck at a level below the die field, that the polishing plates would not touch the rims, (unless, as in the case of Ozland's double sided concave coin, overpolishing had occurred). If overpolishing (or overbasining) occurred to the point of affecting the rim, there would be little, if any sign of denticles on the coin, and concavity would be an understatement. I would 'suspect' that if rounded rims were an issue, that the likely cause might be insufficient upsetting of the planchets.

There, you have it through 'my' eyes.

You know what they say Gene, 'If you want it done right, do it yourself'. That holds true with doing your own research, as well as making up your own mind. If you consider the internet as a good place to research, consider the sources of this information. Then consider logic and rationale.

I have an open mind...but also have thought of things others have represented,, I do question

Specifically....?

edited to add:

It's intuitively obvious that the first strikes from any new die pair will be Prooflike, and reasonable to expect the same from dies polished later in their life. The only question is whether examples survive circulation with their finish intact.

From a statistical standpoint: Heritage has record of 174,805 Morgan sales. Of these, 17,815 carried a PL or DM designation. 27,914 of the total sold were in Circulated grades, some 200 of them AU yet Prooflike. Every mintage year is represented in both PL and DM, although I wasn't able to determine if each mint in each year were represented.

I don't think 10% is a realistic percentage for PL/DM - such coins are proportionally more likely to be sent for slabbing - but a not inconsiderable fraction of extant Morgans have such surfaces.

If it makes ya all feel any better I am still reading and learning